Clonnie Yearout:

(If we agree, you must be right!) 

 

 

Of course...I thought that was the definition of being right!!!!

Clonnie Yearout:

My vote, at least in state and national elections, always seems to be choosing between the lesser of two evils.  I don't think you can be a state or national candidate for either party without selling at least a portion of your soul to the devil. 

 

I agree with this.  Which raises a good question...if we are only choosing between the lesser of two evils, should we vote at all?  Do we have an obligation to vote for the lesser of two evils, or should we withhold our vote as a way of saying to the parties that you have not offered me an acceptable choice, therefore I will not vote for either one.  In the 2004 presidential election I took that route.  I was so fed up with the Bush administration (which I voted for in 2000) and could not accept Kerry...so therefore I did not vote.  Had there been a decent third party or independent canidate, I would have voted for them.  So I reject the theory that we have an obligation to vote even when  we believe there is no acceptable choice to elect.

Luanne Traud:

Does your vote matter?

Every vote matters in some context, but the context may not be the election in which it's cast. 

When I lived in Lynchburg, my much-more-liberal-than-average vote was always buried under a mountain of religious-right votes.  I still voted.  Sadly, I might not be voting this time.  By a quirk of scheduling outside my ability to influence, I have just been informed that I will be in Idaho on election day.  I've been told by my registrar that applying to vote absentee at this late date is dicey at best, but I faxed my application nonetheless. 

On election day, my vote will be tallied after the concession speeches have all been made - assuming that my vote arrives early enough to be counted at all.  In the context of the election, my vote won't matter, but It will matter to me. 

E. Duane Howard:

 

Of course the final point we all know and must say on this question is the proverbial, “If you don’t vote, then you have no right to complain”

E Duane, Pardon me but that is one of the stupidest proverbs of all time. If I have to choose between the lesser of two evils I'm still choosing evil which I won't do.I will complain. If I am supposed to vote between either Hitler or Stalin I won't vote and I will complain. Those are extreme examples but with continued complaining I can at least be a thorn in their sides. And I still have a right to do it in this country.When politicians suck up to the party line and pander to voters they lose my respect and my vote.

 

Luanne Traud:

Does your vote matter?

ABSOLUTELY!  Does one little (OK, not so little) Sandi Saunders vote matter?  Well no, BUT, there are millions of us out there and when we all are of a mind to change things (Obama) we can do it and just like winning the lottery, changing the world, or getting a new policy enacted, we live on the dream and belief that "E pluribus unum"    We know the importance of that one little vote in the big picture and success is the elixir we are chasing.

Out of many, one

A blizzard starts with a single snowflake    A firestorm starts with one spark     A raging river starts at a stream

A shower starts with one raindrop     An apple tree starts with one seed

One is a very important number. Adding to it is even nicer.

 

bobchristenson:

 Pardon me but that is one of the stupidest proverbs of all time. If I have to choose between the lesser of two evils I'm still choosing evil which I won't do.I will complain. If I am supposed to vote between either Hitler or Stalin I won't vote and I will complain. Those are extreme examples but with continued complaining I can at least be a thorn in their sides. And I still have a right to do it in this country.When politicians suck up to the party line and pander to voters they lose my respect and my vote.

 

 

Bob,

Well said..I agree.

[Ricky is sitting out this week's topic because voting rights have not been extended to canines.  He is not bothered by this because he thinks politics is stupid and has a low opinion of most politicians.] 

Does my vote matter?  To me it does.  Our democracy requires little of us citizens beyond informed voting.  We can be politically active in many ways, but voting is the least we can do.  One common rationalization for not voting is that no election is ever decided by one vote.  That's true, but no house is ever built with just one nail, no crop is harvested from just one seed, and no war is won by a single bullet.  Another common argument is that all politicians stink and one shouldn't have to vote for "the lesser of two evils."  I suppose if no candidate is tolerable, as a matter of principle one should not vote; but why is it so hard for imperfect citizens to stomach voting for an imperfect candidate?

I reject the opinion that people have no right to complain if they don't bother to vote.  We have plenty of whiners and complainers in our society, including both voters and nonvoters.  Nothing could shut them up even if we didn't have the First Amendment, and even if we had wildly popular elected officials doing everything right.  Some people insist on always having their way, and nothing is ever good enough for them.

Why vote?  It's a cliche but true that much blood has been spilled to attain and preserve our liberty, including our right to vote.  When I vote, whether I am jumping up and down with excitement for a superb candidate (seldom the case) or voting for the "lesser evil," I think of my dad, who fought in World War II, and the millions of other Americans to whom my right to vote is owed.  It's the least I can do in return.  I always walk a little taller having voted, whether my candidate wins or loses.

[300 words]

Marvin Foster:

Do we have an obligation to vote for the lesser of two evils, or should we withhold our vote as a way of saying to the parties that you have not offered me an acceptable choice, therefore I will not vote for either one.

I'm not sure whether either of the parties give a rip about us boycotting elections -- so long as our doing so hurts the other party's chances.  Oh, they may mouth some platitudinous blather about participating in the democratic process, but the only thing that really matters to them is winning, and winning big so that they can advance their agenda.  I'm kind of enjoying watching the current situation as the Democrats have the numbers to put through anything they want -- if they could only whip the members of their own party into submission.  I almost laughed out loud when President Obama hailed the Senate's "bipartisanship" after Olympia Snow gave a tentative and conditional "aye" in voting the so-called health-care reform bill out of committee.  President Bush built a coalition of of nations against Iraq that including everyone in the world except two Frenchmen and was accused of acting unilaterally. 

Clonnie Yearout:

I should have voted for President Obama and thereby inoculated myself forever against any charge of racism.

I'm afraid that statement may have backfired.  You just don't get it, my friend.

Luanne Traud:

Does your vote matter?

 

 My vote matters to me. It gives me the satisfaction of doing something positive on the issues that I care about. But does it matter in the big picture? I'd like to think so, but sometimes I wonder.

It seems as if there is a large body of people out there who are completely uninformed as to the issues, but they vote anyway. They'll get distracted by statements unrelated to the issues being contested (what Dave Hanson refers to as Red Herrings) and will vote in direct opposite to what their personal best interests would normally dictate. An example is the NRA crowd; they will vote the way the NRA tells them to vote, they feel that thinking about any of the other issues being discussed would be just a waste of their time.

A lot of voters also seem to go with whoever broadcasts the most TV spots, never trying to find out whether the spots are true or false. That's why negative campaigning is so successful; it works. In short, they do what they are told to do, they do not exercise informed independent judgment. And there are enough of them to swing elections.

A few years back, a couple of social scientists (whatever that is) ran a study, and formed the conclusion that, based on interviews covering their knowledge and opinions, the majority of Americans are complete morons. Maybe that was harsh, but it sure gives one pause when thinking about elections.

I've read that it's worse in parts of Australia, where voting is compulsory, and if you don't vote you have to pay a fine. The claim is that there, they will show up and vote and not know or care who they are voting for, just to avoid the fine.

I apologize for the negative attitude, but it's a gloomy day with forecast for a similar week-end. But if U Va can pull an unlikely home-team upset on GA Tech, I'll try to post some really positive stuff tomorrow night.

Norb

 

 

 

 

Joe Campbell:

 

Unless there's a cynical subtext here, I don't understand the question. Since every vote is counted¹, every vote counts.

 

 

¹ Broward County, FL in 2000 notwithstanding.

 

 Sometimes, your vote counts more than once!

As a woman, maybe I have an especial affinity for the vote simply because we had to fight hard for it.  I can grant that as a burden I feel to always be informed and vote as a repayment for that debt.

I take exception to the "lesser of two evils" as well.  Although it CAN fit, it seldom actually does.  If you are a Republican or a Democrat you most certainly have more than JUST the candidate to choose to support.  Not loving Deeds is no reason to allow McDonnell a cake walk to the office and vice-versa.

Not liking campaign ads is also a bit of a cop-out.  Good ads are not easy and smart people can be talked into some dumb tactics by people who supposedly know what they are doing.  It is A barometer not THE measure to take IMO.  As with my own feisty nature, if I am hit, I hit back.  Many folks say Al Gore and John Kerry refused to go as dirty as needed when others had no such compunction and look where it got them.  There are too many variables to a campaign for the dumb ads to be THE deciding factor.

Creigh Deeds has spent his adult life serving Virginia and Bob McDonnell has done so for many years.  They have ties, records, and platforms to judge them on and neither is evil.  One will work WITH a GA that is holding Virginia back and one will continue to work AGAINST the entrenched powers that be.  That alone is a good reason to give Deeds your support against a Robertson/Falwell protege IMO.

I know the "evil" is a generality, but it is unfair and a cop out to this suffragette.

 

 

 

Norb Weckstein:

A few years back, a couple of social scientists (whatever that is) ran a study, and formed the conclusion that, based on interviews covering their knowledge and opinions, the majority of Americans are complete morons.  Maybe that was harsh, but it sure gives one pause when thinking about elections.  I've read that it's worse in parts of Australia, where voting is compulsory, and if you don't vote you have to pay a fine.

I confess that I am often torn between my faith in the collective wisdom of the people on the one hand, and my disappointment in what seems to be compelling evidence of mass stupidity on the other.  I suppose if we believe in democracy, we have to hope for, work for, and depend upon the former.  I think we all pay a heavy price when the "morons" outnumber the well-informed people in the voting booths.

E. Duane Howard:

Say we are talking about local elections for Roanoke City.   If several hundred people fail to go out and vote because they think their vote will not matter, then when the vote tallies come in and a candidate wins or loses by several hundred votes its evidently clear that “One” votes among hundreds does indeed affect the outcome of elections.

 

Duane,

I'm glad you brought up the local scene. It gives me another chance to vent on an old wound.

Thanks to the way our elections are run, the majority doesn't always win.

In the critical election a few years ago, two thirds of the voters voted for candidates who promised to support the repair of Victory Stadium to make it a state-of-the-art venue. But that vote was split among 10 candidates, while the opposition ran only 3. So, with only a third of the vote, the opposition won, and with the complicity of the turncoat former Mayor and the soon to be departed City Mangler, they tore it down -- so that the true majority could not later resuscitate it.

It used to be a unifying site where all sections of Roanoke felt comfortable.  For example, the Roanoke Times Fourth of July celebration was wonderful and brought everyone out. Now that's completely gone. (In fairness, they probably couldn't afford it any more, anyway)

While the acoustics were not great, it was a big enough site to attract big name concerts. Now we have nothing; just studies as to if or when and where we should build an amphitheater.

I know I'm vulnerable on this because Bill Clinton got elected for his first term in a similar split vote, but maybe the Afghans have something here. If a candidate doesn't get a majority, you eliminate the lower vote getters, and hold a runoff election between the top two. That assures that the majority rules.

Norb

 

Given the critically close elections and the ramifications of them, I am with you Norb!  I still hate the whole Victory Stadium demise.

 

No point, just testing a theory... thanks!