Clonnie Yearout:

Of all the uncaring actions by a Democrat White House and an overwhelmingly Democrat Congress, this has to be the most uncaringest cut of all.  Our beloved seniors spend 62-plus years of their lives producing CO2 and other assorted gases for our atmosphere and what thanks do they get?  Here, take this $250 and pay your cable bill for a couple of months.... 

The left takes great pride in their ability to "care" for the less fortunate among us, but if they really cared, they'd be sending some serious money to the oldsters.  How about $2,500 dollars?  That would only cost $130 billion and would do the retirees ten times as much good.  Heck, why not $25,000?  That's only $1.3 trillion in costs.  You say you're worried about the costs?  Why?  Why did we suddenly start worring about how much debt our grandchildren are accumulating?  It's only money, and our government owns the printing presses.  Another benefit is that we can depend on the retirees to spend the money now, not postpone spending it until an election year, as the politicians have done with the stimulus money. 

Honestly, I astound myself sometimes with my brilliant ideas.  If I had some free time, I would get myself elected to office and go straighten some things out up there along the Potomac.  Naaah ... it'd never happen.  I know some of you have already started stockpiling some of my perceived "insensitive" remarks as insurance against just such an occurrence.  Pity.  It'll be America's loss....

H-m-m-m.  I sense snark here, but I'll plow ahead nonetheless.

Question: Who here has recieved a cost of living adjustment in any other dispersal, this year?  I'll be happy to include pay raises, pension increases, higher stock dividends, or whatever.  FWIW, I haven't personally for the last two years, and this is not all that unusual.  I did a quick review, and have not had "pay adjustments" in 6 of the last 15 years, and I don't want to talk about the stock market. 

Those in the Silent and GI generations may have never seen this before.  Boomers, Gen Xers and Millenials certainly have.  It's the new paradigm.

 

Nick Prout:

Norb, "return of the recession?" I didn't know it was over. I will join you in the pessimistic side of things because I believe, realistically, that the worst  is not too far off. Rev. Wright's chickens have yet to "come home to roost" if the spending does not stop soon. Big time inflation is just around the corner due to the "skyrocketing" (to borrow a current buzz word) debt. Hope I'm wrong. This $250/$13 billion handout is peanuts compared to what has been spent and the spending that is in the wings. Stay tuned,

Rev Wright?  Who?  Chickens?  What?  Oh yeah.  What was that line attributed to Jack Kennedy?  "You know why the elephant is the symbol of the Republican Party?  Elephants have long memories and short vision."  I would have thought it was way past time to forget about Reverend Wright... a whole year.  Got to laugh at the anti-Obama peanut gallery.  Whatever lines they recited over and over in the campaign will probably go with them to the grave.  Being the anti-government party is easy these days; and of course, the GOP did such a fine job when they were in the driver's seat.  Maybe the great visionary GOP will rise from the ashes soon and save the country.  LOL 

In the grand scheme of things, you're probably right that $13 billion is small potatoes, but so is $250 per person, and a far cry from a cost of living increase.  I think it's a "bread and circuses" distraction.  We need to get a good health care reform bill through Congress.  We also need to get our soldiers home and not just redeployed from Iraq to Afghanistan.  Where next?  Pakistan?  Iran? 

P.S. I hope to see you and Kaci tomorrow.  We plan to be there.

Norb..."Since I have been slightly pessimistic on whether we are out from under the threat of a return of the recession, what with the still high unemployment. 

Nick to Norb... "return of the recession?" I didn't know it was over. I will join you in the pessimistic side of things because I believe, realistically, that the worst  is not too far off. Rev. Wright's chickens have yet to "come home to roost" if the spending does not stop soon. Big time inflation is just around the corner due to the "skyrocketing" (to borrow a current buzz word) debt. Hope I'm wrong. This $250/$13 billion handout is peanuts compared to what has been spent and the spending that is in the wings. Stay tuned,  Nick. 

Norb, great post previously too, when you put out some thoughts to kick around. Great stuff. Thanks.

Nick, your "$250/$13 billion handout is peanuts..." tells me you have their hold hole card.

$1,000,000,000,000   ...That money they printed and quit talking about...$1 trillion

$     13,000,000,000    ...What is on the table to give those most worthy.....$13 billion

The nine zero's above cancel out, and to scale, the pie has 1000 slices, and 13 slices are being considered. Sure appears to be smoke and mirror generosity to me. $250 will not impact much, and my guess is utility bills get the lions share of the $250, for people as a rule like to see at night and be warm. Make a difference to both the people AND the economy, give up on some of the money "we the people" printed out of thin air at the Federal Reserve Inc. building not too long ago. I remember. Gip

 

Marvin Foster:

This is the first time since automatic COLA adjustments were started in 1975 that the CPI has not changed enough to merit an increase in benefits. Last year recipients received a 5.8% increase even though overall CPI increased only 0.1% for the year. This was primarily due to a spike in gasoline prices which has since abated and to the way social security calculates the adjustments using a third-quarter-to-third-quarter period for calculations. I didn't hear anyone screaming that those increases were too big and should be rescinded or reduced. I realize that many social security recipients are on very tight budgets and struggle to meet their obligations. But they are not alone. We have millions of unemployed and low-wage workers who also struggle. In difficult economic times, the burden must be shared. This is not the time to change the rules of the game just because they didn't justify an increase in benefits this year.

Excellent, Marvin.  I agree with all of it, and especially the sentences I italicized.

 

Edwin..."I don't like it, because that money will be gone. I hope it's enough to meaningfully help those who will receive it, but transfer payments are money gone. They have to be financed through taxes, and taxes have to be collected through growth. If we borrow to make transfer payments, we risk inflation. We should be talking about using the power of government to jumpstart growth. Then we can finance Social Justice through new wealth, as we should."

Hey Edwin. I do believe I am starting to catch your drift. Last week you flew right over my head, but I am tuning in to your message a bit, and I think we see much of the same stuff going on, and the same players doing it. I had a lot of nerve ranting toward you last week, and was out of line. I have a feeling you may relate to my getting bent out of shape sometimes. I enjoy reading what you have to say. It is very obvious you care, and I admire your intensity. Sincerely, Gip

Marvin..."I realize that many social security recipients are on very tight budgets and struggle to meet their obligations. But they are not alone. We have millions of unemployed and low-wage workers who also struggle. In difficult economic times, the burden must be shared. This is not the time to change the rules of the game just because they didn't justify an increase in benefits this year. Let's be thankful that inflation is low at the moment and hope it stays under control...but don't count on that happening after the massive billions of stimulus money being pumped into the economy."

Marvin, great post. Sympathetic to those in need, realistic about it, and optimistic we won't sink our economy doing it. Seems everyone could use a boost to get by the last few years or so, but not everyone needing help will get it. Much like the pea under one of three shells type game, where you could have sworn it was under one, but not so fast my friend. So you look under the other shell, then the other, and then look befuddled wondering where the money went. Hard to not wish for the retired folks to receive more money, but maybe across the board would be most fair, as we all have to pay it back. Enjoyed your post. Gip

PS...who had the key when we swiped the retired folks money out of Social Security? I really don't know, and would like to.

Nick Prout:

Norb, "return of the recession?" I didn't know it was over. I will join you in the pessimistic side of things because I believe, realistically, that the worst  is not too far off.  

 

 

Nick,

The stock market is acting as if it believes that it is over. But the technical cycle analysis people are split. One group thinks it's just a bear market trap, and a major down turn is imminent in the very near future.

One thing is certain. Timing is everything. Bulls make money in rising markets, and Bears make money in falling markets -- but Lambs, who rely solely on the opinions of their brokers, get slaughtered in all markets. I wonder if that is the real origin of the phrase "the golden fleece," as in fleecing someone out of his money.

Norb

Norb..."I wonder if that is the real origin of the phrase "the golden fleece," as in fleecing someone out of his money."

Hey Norb. I see the stock market more like a game of "Duck, Duck, Goose," where you hope you don't get plucked. I'm just saying and probably shouldn't be. Gip

Gibson Brown:

Norb..."I wonder if that is the real origin of the phrase "the golden fleece," as in fleecing someone out of his money."

Hey Norb. I see the stock market more like a game of "Duck, Duck, Goose," where you hope you don't get plucked. I'm just saying and probably shouldn't be. Gip

 

 You could always say that you were referring to the fact that it can make you sick. But, the avian flu was more appropriate for the topic of a couple of weeks ago.

Addendum: Seriously, and apropriately, should any of you start to get the symptoms of the flu, I have seen an inexpensive homeopathic product knock the symptoms down in short order. It's named oscillococcinum, and it's original source is a special duck liver. It is sold in health food stores, and I've seen it in drug stores and in Krogers. My daughter went from miserable to comfortable in an hour or so. Try it, you'll like it.

Norb Weckstein:

The stock market is acting as if it believes that it is over. But the technical cycle analysis people are split. One group thinks it's just a bear market trap, and a major down turn is imminent in the very near future.

 

Norb,

The stock market and banking industries are being artificially propped up by tax dollars so the rise of the market cannot last. Did you see the article on the front page of this morning's Times about red ink? That is exactly what I was talking about yesterday with the reference to roosting chickens. With more huge expenditures on deck (cap/tax, health care and who knows what others are being formulated) our economy can't stand further expansion of the debt ceiling. Washington is in the midst of a spending frenzy which is totally irresponsible during this economic downturn.

Nick

 

Gibson Brown:

PS...who had the key when we swiped the retired folks money out of Social Security? I really don't know, and would like to.

 

 Gip and Dave,

Thanks for the kind words.

Gip...they didn't swipe the money out ouf social security, they just never put it in at all.  It is the great ponzi scheme, collect from today's workers to pay today's retirees....Bernie Madoff couldn't have done it any better.

Before answering this week's question, everyone should read today's RT article about our national debt and also their short take editorial on this very issue.  Should make you stop and think about where this entitlement mentality that we have developed is leading us.  Whether at the personal, business or government level, deficiet spending without earning a return to cover it is borrowing from the future...our own or someone's else.

Nick Prout:

The stock market and banking industries are being artificially propped up by tax dollars so the rise of the market cannot last. Did you see the article on the front page of this morning's Times about red ink? That is exactly what I was talking about yesterday with the reference to roosting chickens

 

 

Nick,

Interesting we posted comments on the same article and subject at the same time....and in agreement (as we usually do.)

Norb Weckstein:

Clonnie, I apologize for not including you in the above list. It was purely an oversight, and no slight was intended.

Loved it, Norb!  As soon as I saw your post I made a note to berate you for leaving me out, but you ran the correction before I could act. LOL

 

Marvin Foster:

Interesting we posted comments on the same article and subject at the same time....and in agreement (as we usually do.)

 

It must be some kind of cosmic connection, Marvin. Big spending= political payback=corruption=bigger economic problems coming down the road.

 

Dave Hanson:

Where is Tony when we need him?  Evidently you've forgotten that polite scolding he gave you.  It's the Democratic Party, Democratic administration, and Democratic Congress.

Are you absolutely sure about that?  I had made a note to never use the "ic" suffix when referring to anything relative to the Democrat party.  If you don't mind, I'm going to wait for a second opinion -- from Tony, if he's listening -- or perhaps from Betty.  The "uncaringest" term was intentional and a play on "the unkindest cut of all."   "Worring" was an inadvertent mistake.  I had hoped to get through October without making any mistakes, but now my perfect record is blemished.  I'll start fresh on November 1....

Dave Hanson:

You've added some fine ideas to this week's discussion.

Here's the idea(s) I was trying to add -- in my own inimitable way: Does the total cost of the program have any relevance, or are we just beginning to get comfortable with spending money we don't have?  Do we have $13 billion in uncommitted funds lying around that we can donate to retirees?  If we have to borrow the $13 billion, what will be the total cost of the program/loan to our children?  Are there retirees who are so wealthy that they don't need the $250?  If so, why would we borrow money from our children to give to people who don't need it?  If there are retirees who need charity, let's extend it to them, but giving money to people who don't need it seems foolish to me.