WOW!  Just heard from the other lawyer.  They're both top notch, very dedicated, wonderful people!  FYI:

/Pemberton v. Tallahassee Memorial Regional Medical/, 66 F.Supp.2d 1247 - TN (1999).  This is a federal trial court decision.  Mrs. Pemberton did not appeal.  If she had, it probably would have been reversed by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.  Tell your friend he should also read a few other cases in this area, including /In re A.C./,573 A.2d 1235; 1990 D.C. App. LEXIS 90 (D.C. 1990), the Angela Carder case, and several cases from Illinois.  The Angela Carder case, which went up on appeal to the District of Columbia court of appeals, was decided correctly ON APPEAL but not at the trial court level.   Tell your friend that there are several law review articles in this area and that he should also check out the website for the National Advocates for Pregnant Women, where a lot of this research is posted.

 

Nick Prout:

That would be Dion DiMucci (& the Belmonts)

Hey, Nick.  You win the prize.  I had forgotten that I had posted the question, what with all the fireworks going on.  I'm ashamed to admit that I was getting some sort of sick pleasure from watching Dave squirm a little bit, sort of like rubber-necking as you pass the scene of a car wreck.  I'm in the boat with Dave, but I'm afraid to stick my neck out and say so -- a skillet might hit me from behind.  I'll say one thing for old Dave:  he's brave and consistantly honest in saying what he thinks.  (I guess that was two things, wasn't it?)  Given the subject matter, I would have wimped out at the first hint of trouble. 

To get back on topic (sort of), few things make me feel older than comparing modern "music" to the music of my youth.  Michael Jackson was fine with me, but I preferred to hear rather than see him, and he sort of represents the top end of what I can easily embrace.  Any style farther out than MJ is probably over my limit.  If I had to pick out one absolute favorite of all time it would probably be Celine Dion, but many others are close seconds.  Still, it's fun to go back several decades and enjoy the artists of an earlier era.  (I was listening to The Cowsills earlier.)  Funny thing about talent -- it stands out in spite of the limitations of time and technology.

Nick Prout:

it is always easy to pile on to the utilities for the reason de jour.

You are absolutely right, Nick, and those who think utility bills are high now may soon be looking back and calling these the "good old days."  If some of the legislation simmering in Washington right now becomes law -- which it very likely will -- rates are going to go even higher.  When that happens, expect the utilities to receive the lion's share of the blame while the Washington pols get praised for their environmental efforts.

Clonnie Yearout:

I'm in the boat with Dave, but I'm afraid to stick my neck out and say so -- a skillet might hit me from behind.

I wish I had known that the mother's story had been recorded at the summit and was accessible on the web:

http://vimeo.com/4895023

I hope you will listen to her story and then see if that is something you feel comfortable being allowed to happen in our "free" country.  I was shocked to hear what happened to her and it's one of the reasons why so many people are trying to make sure it doesn't happen again.

If it was me you were worrying about coming up from behind to hit you on the head with a skillet please don't worry.  I always like to face people.  While I'm not a big fan of Shakespeare's plays, one of my favorite quotes by Shakespeare is:

"The pen is mightier than the sword."

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dave Hanson:

I'm not interested in investigating it, myself.  Freeda has exhausted my interest in the topic, and I'm a busy guy. 

I'm sorry I've exahusted your interest on the topic.  I thought a father with 3 daughters would find the topic more of interest than a mother with four sons.  Not the first time my thoughts have been wrong..  I can understand being busy.  After I read your response I had to  pick the kids up from science camp.  On the radio was a song I haven't heard in a long time but seemed very appropriate, Thick As A Brick:

 

Freeda, I respect your passion for this topic; I just don't happen to share it with the same intensity.  Honestly, you're coming across (to me) like an in-your-face evangelist.  I'm not inclined to join your crusade (so ero, I am a brickhead).  Fill up the forum (on Michael Jackson, btw) with all the commentary and links you want to share (I'm not the moderator), but I've stopped reading them.  I can't speak for anyone else, and maybe others in the forum are silently engaged with you, but I'm not interested anymore. 

Call me insensitive, stupid, whatever you like.  I'll just add this.  First, my wife has no regrets about three c-section births, and you don't know anything about the reasons why she had them.  Second, if one of my daughters was having a baby, I can guarantee you she'd be under the care of the best gynecologist/obstetrician available and would follow her advice, not as a victim of paternalistic oppression, sexist discrimination, or anything of the sort.  They are all intelligent, strong, independent women.  They don't need an advocate or savior.  They can fight their own battles at home, in the workplace, and in the doctor's office. 

Sure, I'm busy, but we know that's not the point.  The point is that your crusade is yours, not mine.  Judge me however you wish.

Dave Hanson:

Honestly, you're coming across (to me) like an in-your-face evangelist.

That's really harsh, Dave and I don't think deserved.  I haven't used any judgements against you.  Not one. 

I was responding  to your assertion that all people have equal rights in our country and cites at least two examples where there isn't protection under the US Constitution.  Your daughters may be intelligent, independent women but the only right guaranteed to them by the US Constitution is the right to vote.  Also under current circumstances even the best OB/GYBN might not be able to deliver the care they think  your daughters should receive because of hospital policies.  If you listened to the mother's story from the link I already submitted then you would know that the hospital was the one making the calls and not the doctor of her choice.

 

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dave Hanson:

Honestly, you're coming across (to me) like an in-your-face evangelist.

That's really harsh, Dave and I don't think deserved.  I haven't used any judgements against you.  Not one.  

 

Well, you posted at least ten comments directed at me today, leading up to the implication that I am a brickhead.  You did not offend me or hurt my feelings; but you did come across to me like an in-your-face evangelist.  I'm sorry if you don't appreciate that characterization.  I'm a doctor of history, not obstetrics; but I don't think my daughter, who is a top-notch OBGYN, would appreciate your characterization of her field of medicine, either.  It's a field that is increasingly run by women for women, not against them.  I'm sure you do good work, Freeda, and I wish you much success.

With no hard feelings, I'm ready for our new topic.

Frederick Fuller:

 

We humans of any race are not benevolent creatures, I fear. We will always find something or someone to degrade so we can mask our feelings of inferiority. I don’t think any of us can escape that. Christians hate Jews, Jews hate Christians, and everyone now hates Muslims. It goes on and on. We are truly a piece of work, and if we believe we are made in God’s image, I wonder, then, about God.

I do not know when I have felt prouder to read the words of someone I consider a king among men!  I would be honored and humbled, just to shake your hand and say thank you!  I knew you were beyond special.  Thanks for the affirmation!

Nick Prout:

They can't please all of the people all of the time nor do they try.  I don't know about Dominion's rates, but AEP has some of the lowest rates in the country and their service is pretty good.

 

 My Dear Mr. Nick,

The oversight of energy companies in Virginia is pretty much a pretense.  There was a time in which energy companies were regulated because they were basically granted a monopoly.  However, a number of years ago, it was decided that government regulation was inappropriate.  Now, AEP has a complete monopoly with little if any oversight.  (Starting to sound like Wall Stree?)  Regulation is no long an appropriate term and oversight is a world away from the previous oversight and regulation.  

I might be inclined to agree with you if rates went down when fuel costs go down, but they do not.  In my memory, AEP or Dominion Resources has never gone to ask for a rate reduction when fuel rates have fallen.  Once rates go up they stay up.  Since much of the power generated in this area comes from coal, the price of oil has little to do with it.  Much of that coal is provided by Massey Energy ,and much of it is strip mined right here in southwest Virginia.  Massey (Virginia Company headquartered in Richmond) touts the advantages of mountaintop mining as a cheaper and less expensive method that produces cheaper coal.  AEP has plans approved to build a new coal-fired plant in Wythville.  Coal is cheap, nearby, and abundant.  Why would AEP need additional increases on top of the previous ones if a large portion of their fuel is coming from coal? 

At one time the commission did have some authority to regualte the monopoly.  Now, however, they can only regulate requests related to fuel costs.  Sorry, I do not have a lot of confidence in AEP.  Given the record breaking profits of the previous year, the rate hikes afforded them last year, and their coninued reliance on coal, they are not a company in which I have a lot of trust. 

Sorry, I usually agree with you.  Looks like we may have some interesting ideas to exchange!

Sharron Smith 

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dave Hanson:

Honestly, you're coming across (to me) like an in-your-face evangelist.

That's really harsh, Dave and I don't think deserved.  I haven't used any judgements against you.  Not one. 

Miss Freeda, I enjoyed your posts about Michael Jackson and the outrage against women that you shared.  I have also felt the rebuke of Mr. Hanson and have retreated to "the dog blog", but I still read the posts here.  I will say that I do not think he always means to sound as harsh as he does, but I am willing to concede I am wrong about that as well.  Thanks for your support of women and your obvious courage!   Passion is important.  You go girl!

 

 

Clonnie Yearout:

If some of the legislation simmering in Washington right now becomes law -- which it very likely will -- rates are going to go even higher.  When that happens, expect the utilities to receive the lion's share of the blame while the Washington pols get praised for their environmental efforts.

 

Now, Now, Mr. Clonnie,

That simmering legislation was worked out by Rep. Boucher who represents Virginia's coal country.  You might want to look closely to see the special arrangements in the bill that provide tender loving care for AEP's coal-fired energy plants.  Included is generous funding for developing "clean-coal" technology -- somewhat of an oxymoron -- with money from that tightly held purse of yours. 

I imagine the energy companies will howl, but not too loudly. (It would really cause suspicion if they supported the American Clean Energy and Security Act (ACES).  This was a good compromise for them.  In fact, if the coal companies and energy companies had not been on board, it would never have made it out of committee.

The current request for increased rates comes from a decision AEP made to purchase large quantities of oil when prices were high.  This was not a good decision, but we will pay for it anyway, and much of the increased rate will go toward purchasing fuel at the current lower costs.  Wish we could go to our employer and insist on more money when we pay more for items than we should.  I suppose this is the price we must pay when a monopoly operates in a free market. 

Please notice that out of consideration for your sensitive feelings, I omitted 5 Dears.

Sharron Smith  

Sandi Saunders:

Passion is important.  You go girl!

 

Alright Now Ms. Sandi,

Where have you been?  How am I supposed to take on these goofy conservative male-ego-types all by myself?  I've missed you! 

Sharron Smith

Sharron Smith:

AEP has plans approved to build a new coal-fired plant in Wythville.

 

Sorry Nick, I got my "W" counties mixed-up!  The new plant is going in Wise County not Wythe County. 

I sometimes type faster than my brain can think!  (Since I type slowly, that gives you a hint about the fundamental problem!) 

Sharron

Sharron Smith:

Sandi Saunders:

Passion is important.  You go girl!

 

Alright Now Ms. Sandi,

Where have you been?  How am I supposed to take on these goofy conservative male-ego-types all by myself?  I've missed you! 

Sharron Smith

Good one Sharron!!

When I read this what came to mind is that you really only need one hand to do it.... you don't need "no stinkin' " help!!

I totally agree with your original post on men/women equality.  Its been my observation that a strong capable women is usualy referred to as a b..ch, and the equivalent characteristics in a man make him a respected leader in his field.  One of the problems with making the playing field equal is that many women have never known  or realized the extent of bias that is present, and that women also propagate it, unconsciously I think (Hope!)  They have been taught so long (me included) that they can't do it, or it can't happen, that many choose not to try.  Its a biological fact that women are different from men.  Strength, hormones, etc.  But that does not mean they are lesser. 

One example I would make is the roanoke city manager.  She has learned the playing field, and does it well.  But her opponents continue to reference her gender - ie Queen Darlene.  I am neither for or against her policies - I just admire her strength under pressure. I never hear any male references to any of our politicians.

This topic would make a good one for VOV - everyone of us has a story about this - male and female. 

Sharron, you have been one of the VOV's I have really admired.  Your posts are always well thougth out, well written, and mostly express my views much better than I could.  I was wondering if that is beause you "write as a man", and I subconsciously view that style as superior?  I tend to write stream of consciousness style - is that a girl thing? A lack of writing training thing?  A lack of interest thing?   Fascinating stuff - its everywhere.

Robin

to err is human,to secondguess - feminine

Sandi Saunders:

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dave Hanson:

Honestly, you're coming across (to me) like an in-your-face evangelist.

That's really harsh, Dave and I don't think deserved.  I haven't used any judgements against you.  Not one. 

Miss Freeda, I enjoyed your posts about Michael Jackson and the outrage against women that you shared.  I have also felt the rebuke of Mr. Hanson and have retreated to "the dog blog", but I still read the posts here.  I will say that I do not think he always means to sound as harsh as he does, but I am willing to concede I am wrong about that as well.  Thanks for your support of women and your obvious courage!   Passion is important.  You go girl!

I am candid, honest, and direct with adults.  I'm more patient, tactful and gentle with children.  If I come across as harsh sometimes, I'm sorry.  I didn't entirely agree with some of the comments recently expressed by Freeda, most of which were addressed to me.  She has her opinions and I have mine.  She's passionate about this, I'm not.  She thinks that makes me a brick head, and I'm harsh.  Okay.  But let's not make this into a "she versus he" contest, Sandi.  It was a polite disagreement between two people.  The point of all the discussions here is having them and learning from them, not winning an argument.  I confess the case of the woman in Florida does not really interest me, so my heart and head were not fully in the discussion.  To Freeda I apologize for that. 

Part of what annoyed me was the characterization of women who have c-section deliveries as victims and the doctors that perform them as sexist oppressors of women.  The best OBGYN I know is a phone call away 24X7 but I hate to bother her with stuff like this.  I have not asked her, but I think she would laugh at the suggestion that she or other women in her profession force unwilling patients to have c-section deliveries for no good medical reason and that they are anti-women in any way.