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Latest post 05-24-2009 5:56 PM by 11BINFANTRY. 103 replies.
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  • 01-16-2009 11:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    The uncivil tone of the latest exchange is disheartening.  And your attack on Islam, Walker, is disappointing.  There are Islamic terrorists, but Islam is not a terrorist religion.  Some Muslim radicals pervert their religion out of ignorance, fear, or hate.  Some Christians do likewise, by the way. That is my commentary for tonight. 

    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.  Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."  --Groucho Marx

  • 01-18-2009 3:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     Dave,

         I am curious if you have read this page ( http://www.studytoanswer.net/myths_ch7.html ) regarding Islam as being a peaceful religion.  This is just one of many.  I would appreciate your comments.  Thanks.

       

  • 01-18-2009 3:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     Travelguy, what law are you referring to?  The only law I know of regarding religion is the First Amendment to the Constitution.  It reads like this:

    Bill of Rights

    Amendment I

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    Tell me what part of that amendment Mayor Lea broke. 

  • 01-18-2009 7:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     

    I like Walker's posting of George Washington's Prayer, but it was written 6 years before he was even president.  It was by George Washington the man, perhaps George Washington the General.  Not George Washington, the head of the executive branch of the American Government.

     

  • 01-19-2009 11:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     I was responding to this statement: "Jewish and Christian martyrs will die for their beliefs, whereas Islamics will kill you for theirs."  History is full of Christians who murdered so-called heretics and Muslims who died for their beliefs without hurting anyone.  Judaism, Christianity and Islam are three branches of one tree and all have their merits.  I stand by my statement that "Islam is not a terrorist religion."  Having said that, I am not interested in a debate about Islam.  The topic is opening City Council meetings with a denominational prayer, and I think the best approach would be a moment of silence.  Why?  Because no religion is superior to any other religion in civic business.  Government should steer clear of religion in a secular, pluralist society that respects personal liberty and diversity.  A Muslim is free to pray to Allah on his own time (five times daily) but he does not need to open a Roanoke City Council meeting by kneeing, bowing to Mecca, and reciting the al-fatiha.  The same applies to a Christian.  That is my personal opinion and I don't mind sharing it in this public forum, but I don't claim that it is anything more than that--just my opinion.  Take it or leave it, folks.

    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.  Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."  --Groucho Marx

  • 01-20-2009 12:45 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     

    Mr. Hanson

     You said, "Some Christians do likewise, by the way."

    First, I agree, we don't need to argue about the supposed peacefulness of Islam, but please cite where Christians are committing horrible acts of violence and terror, right now, in the name of Christianity?  

    As for George Washington, he is the one who added "SO HELP ME GOD" to his Inaugural oath.  I think that clearly states his position on the matter. 

     

  • 01-20-2009 10:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Past or present, the fact remains that some people do horrible things in the name of God (or Allah) and when they do it is not a fair representation of the true faith they claim to represent.  A contemporary example would be Ku Klux Klansmen who burn crosses and terrorize blacks and Jews, claiming to be soldiers for Christ; or anti-abortion terrorists who bomb clinics and murder doctors.  They disrespect Christ.  Islamic terrorists misrepresent and disrespect their religion.  You don't have to agree with me, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't want an ongoing debate about this.

    George Washington believed in Providence, the guiding and protecting hand of the Almighty.  He did not pray to "Jesus."  Personally, I have prayed countless times to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; but I would not expect a government official in an official capacity to do that.  To do so would be improper, in my opinion.  I thought it was fine today during the Obama inauguration when many federal officials, including the new president, acknowledged "God."  That is an inclusive reference to the Almighty that embraces all faiths.  Obama is a Christian, but he understands that he is the president of all Americans in a pluralistic nation, including Protestant Christians, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, agnostics, etc.

    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.  Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."  --Groucho Marx

  • 01-21-2009 11:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     KKK?  Anti-abortion bombers?    When was the last time you saw ANY of that stuff?  If you are going to equate THAT to the GLOBAL Jihad that has SAID plainly it plans to over-throw all non-islamic nations and enslave, convert  or kill the inhabitants, and has actually managed to kill hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in last 25 years alone,  then you are not capable of an intellectually honest debate.

     

    Google the word "FITNA" and watch the video that follows.

     

    As for old George Washington, are you telling me that when he said, "so help me God", he wasn't talking about the God of Abraham and David?  I think you are revising history a bit to think that our founders worried about being non-inclusive.  They owned slaves, some did anyways.

    As for 0bama, he will be whatever the polls tell him to be.

     

     

  • 01-21-2009 1:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Walker

    How quickly you get mad when you are given examples of Christian Terrorist. All of the groups that were listed have killed people under the banner of Christianity(O & BTW they have committed crimes much more recently than "domestic terrorist" Bill Ayers)

    While you're Googling things try these.... "National Liberation Front of Tripura" and "Nagaland Rebels"

     

  • 01-21-2009 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    There is no anger.  I think the comparison, or idea, that you can even remotely compare the two is silly.  I read your Google recommendations, did you watch FITNA?  Probably not.

    I am sorry but, comparing the widespread, WORLD-wide assault by MUSLIMS against the rest of us... to these Nagaland rebels or the KKK is laughable. 

    Where are all the leaders of Islam apologizing for these acts of terror?   They dont do it.

    What a ridiculous comparison...

  • 01-21-2009 7:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Just admitt your wrong and put away the pride that keeps you from having real discussions with the rest of us.

    Even you see that your wrong and have problems admitting it Walker.

     

  • 01-21-2009 11:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Muslim jihadists have killed "millions" in the past 25 years?  I don't know about that figure.  How may millions?  I belive radical Muslim clerics are supported by oil-rich Arab governments who use Islam to keep their people politically repressed and economically impoverished; and they demonize us to project the people's frustration and despair away from internal conditions to a distant enemy.  Prosperous, educated, and contented people tend not to be suicide bombers.  As I understand it, based on this conception, the Islamic faith is not really the source of the threat.  It is the same old geopolitical and economic forces that have vexed mankind for centuries: greed and power; the haves exploiting the have-nots and competing with their international rivals.  Today some countries do it in the name of Allah.  Five hundred years ago it was done in the name of Christ. 

    I did not say George Washington was not a Christian in the broad sense of the term.  He was. 

    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.  Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."  --Groucho Marx

  • 01-22-2009 10:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     I said, possibly millions.  Regardless, HUNDREDS of thousands, versus how many in the last 25 years by Christians?  Pretty weak argument.  I will agree that there are evil people everywhere and that there are certainly Christians who do hateful things, believing that they are following the scriptures.  But, it ain't even close when we talk about VIOLENCE and death in the name of Allah.

    A Christian is one who believes in Jesus the Christ, pretty simple.  You are right, Washington was a Christian.

    Just curious, What do you think about 9-11?  Was it an attack on innocents?  From your last post I think I know what you think about it, but I may be wrong.

     

     

  • 01-22-2009 11:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Walker even your not dumb enuff to try and judge the history of christian/muslim/jewish conflict on the last 25 years.

    25 years is hardly a blip when it comes to this issue.

    Just quit with the pride, 9/11 questions, and historical time constrants and admit YOUR WRONG.

     

  • 01-22-2009 12:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    As there is no other place to post this, I'd like to remind everyone that this is the 35th anniversary of the Supreme Court's decision to allow abortion, a horrible legal decision, regardless of opinion.  I am asking that everyone take a moment of silence and think about the 50 million lives that have been DENIED the most basic right that we all enjoy, the Right to Life.

    Great piece on the matter below.

    "Few Supreme Court decisions have had as much of an impact on American life as has Roe v. Wade, which subsequent courts have interpreted as having discovered a constitutional right to abortion for virtually any reason and at any time during pregnancy. Since Roe, abortion has taken the lives of at least 50 million Americans (equal to the combined populations of 25 states). The demographic repercussions of Roe continue to shape voting patterns and are a driving force behind America’s fast-approaching entitlements crisis.

    Despite its prominence, several profound misconceptions exist about Roe. These misconceptions help to explain why it remains so controversial 36 years after it was handed down.

    The first misconception is that the right to abortion has constitutional roots. But Roe’s justification actually derives from an abstract interpretation of the 14th Amendment’s premise of liberty and the malleable concept of a right to privacy found not in the actual text of the Constitution but rather in its “penumbras” and emanations. These foundations are so dubious that even leading lights on the left have criticized Roe’s legal reasoning. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for example, has called Roe “heavy-handed judicial intervention.”

    A second misconception is that Americans overwhelming support Roe v. Wade. But the public remains remarkably uninformed about what the court ruling means. The left has done a great job convincing many Americans that Roe is simply a synonym for abortion rights and that, if one supports even a limited right to abortion, one must also support Roe. 

    In a 2007 study of registered voters, respondents were asked whether they wanted Roe overturned. A majority (55 percent) said no, while 34 percent said yes. But when respondents were told what Roe means — that it prohibits states from limiting abortion during the first six months of pregnancy and that, if Roe were overturned, states could pass laws that would permit abortion — the share who opposed reversing Roe dropped 7 points, to 48 percent. Meanwhile, the number of people who supported overturning Roe jumped 9 points, to 43 percent. That’s a 16-point swing.

    The survey actually understated how extreme Roe is. For instance, surveyors didn’t explain that the “health” exception to late-term prohibitions is so expansive that abortion is effectively available for any reason through all nine months of pregnancy, something most Americans oppose. 

    Another misconception concerns what would happen if Roe were overturned. The day after Roe’s reversal, abortion policy would revert back to the states. Some states would severely restrict abortion, while a bigger group of more populous states would likely pass laws guaranteeing the same access to abortion they have now. So, far from ending the abortion battle, Roe’s reversal would mark the beginning of a battle to which the past 35 years have been a prelude.

    difference would be an anti-abortion movement toiling to tackle 50 separate abortion policies simultaneously. Another important difference is

    A post-Roe America would look like the America of today in terms of the sheer volume of abortions. The major that we would no longer teach young Americans the lie that — among their cherished constitutional rights of free speech, religion and assembly — there is also a right to take the life of an unborn baby.

    A final misconception about Roe is one too often held by its opponents: that Roe’s reversal is the ultimate anti-abortion goal and that support for constitutional protections for the unborn betrays the federalist principles of conservatism. But by asserting states’ rights, Roe’s anti-abortion opposition effectively (if unwittingly) accepts Roe’s reasoning that prenatal life is not a due process right within the constitutional framework and, therefore, that the unborn child is not a constitutional “person.”

    Moreover, in our system of government, certain issues are left to the states while others are deemed so essential to our understanding of democracy that they must be taken up nationally. We fought a civil war over the conviction that some issues are too fundamental to be decided state by state. Just as slavery was an assault on human dignity, the slaughter of millions of unborn children is an assault on a natural human right that exists prior to, and regardless of, the whims of a majority.

    The misconceptions surrounding Roe help explain why it is at least as controversial today as it was when it was handed down. The passion Roe continues to evoke will be evident in the scores of thousands of people who descended on Washington this week not to celebrate the swearing-in of a new president but to march peacefully against the scourge of abortion initiated, in large part, by Roe."

    What a sad day.

     

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