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Latest post 05-24-2009 5:56 PM by 11BINFANTRY. 103 replies.
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  • 01-06-2009 12:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     As to the law, lets look at the Bill of Rights as ammended: 

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Contained in the above is the restriction of government to "prohibit the free exercise of "religion" (quotations, my emphesis) and the right to appear before government for "redress of grievances".  One has the right to excerise his faith even while he appears before government - redress of grievance.  Forgret the cause that one might be before government but remember that it is "before government" or in the presence of government.  Your right to object to my faith is not cause to restrict my faith, neither is it government's right to restrict or object.

  • 01-06-2009 12:06 PM In reply to

    • len
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-31-2008
    • Posts 4

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     

    Bravo!

  • 01-06-2009 12:08 PM In reply to

    • len
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-31-2008
    • Posts 4

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     I could not agree more. As a Pastor some responsibility must be accepted.

  • 01-06-2009 12:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     I agree with you walker. But for those that are Christian, we should not have to get used to this. We need to stand up just like the non-christian and make our voices heard. We sit back and keep our mouths shut and let this go on. One day the majority will speak up and the minority will shut up.

  • 01-06-2009 12:13 PM In reply to

    • len
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-31-2008
    • Posts 4

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     "THERE IS NOTHING IN OUR CONSTITUTION ABOUT SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE"

    Sad but true. As one of the main reasons for settlers coming to this land was freedom from religious persecution seems odd that was left out. As a Christian, i was taught that what you do "in public" for external glorification was for man not God. Real Christians carry their faith in the heart, they do not need to use externals.

  • 01-06-2009 12:41 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    "New River Reader" writes: Is Roanoke ready to have its invocation conducted by a Muslim cleric, a Rabbi, a Buddhist priest, a Wiccan priestess, or Indian shaman?  I fear Christians would be offended by having to hear the religious views of others.  Even if Roanoke were ready for this and did so on a rotating basis, these invocations should, by law, remain inclusive enough to make all listeners fell welcomed and blessed to be participating in the government business before them.  If this cannot be resolved or adhered to one can always feel free to comport themselves before government meetings or gatherings funded by public taxes, prior to leaving their homes or visiting a house of worship beforehand, and eliminate the invocation entirely. 

    “Seanpecor” comments:  “If an individual lacks the self-discipline to conduct a non-sectarian opening prayer during a taxpayer funded government meeting, one wonders if that individual has the discipline required to serve his or her constituents in a fair and balanced manner.”   To that I say, Amen. 

    Beautifully put, both of you!! Couldn't agree with your sentiments more.  This isn't being about anti-Christian, this is about being fair, open, and inclusive to all.

  • 01-06-2009 12:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    jgd - While I am not a "Bible thumping-standing on a corner evangelist", I truly believe the removal of GOD and the use of his son's name in prayer and public places is a major part of the problems our country encounters.  You hear prayer before some sporting events where the name of Jesus Christ is called upon or mentioned, and no votes have been taken to court to determine if the individual offering the prayer had committed a crime.  If our forefathers had not believed in God, his name would never have been used in the Pledge of Allegiance.  Our country has spent countless hours fighting over this topic; meanwhile the economy along with other terrible tragedies deserved that time and attention.

    I totally agree that, in order to stop this ridiculous "nitpicking", a silent prayer should be offered by those in attendance at any government meeting.  That's not my way, but at least the members of our City Council could move on to more pressing issues affecting the citizens of our valley. 

  • 01-06-2009 1:01 PM In reply to

    • JV
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    • Joined on 01-06-2009
    • Posts 2

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     Prayer was an essential part of our early government and it should continue to be so now and into the future. I have never had someone turn me down, Christian or not, when I offered to pray for them. It is a good thing, asking for blessings upon a country, a friend, anyone. The US is a Christian country whether or not some of our fellow citizens share this faith. Christianity is not about hate for other religions. It teaches love and respect, kindness and tolerance. I am so hurt by the thought that we as a nation are trying to remove God from our lives, mostly in the public arena. At the same time, if a public official is of a different religion, he or she may also speak a prayer. Prayer is always a positive thing, to be against it is like robbing the recipients of its benefits. Be as it may, the bible tells us that this time will come. When man looks upon himself for all the answers. It also tells us what will happen because of it. Of course, as Christians we are to obey the law. If the law prohibits prayer in public places, then I will simply pray for our leaders in the quiet of my home, but prayer will never cease, no matter how much action is taken by some. A nation that loves God is a blessed nation and it doesn't take much to realize, looking at our country here, that God has become an afterthought. God bless.

  • 01-06-2009 1:09 PM In reply to

    • JV
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-06-2009
    • Posts 2

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     ibsaved, I like your answer. I suppose if I were to move to an islamic country I could not expect them to stop their traditions because of me. I would have the choice to not participate while keeping my Christian Faith. Things will occur as God said they would. My job is to keep looking to Him even if the future forces us to secretly do so. He cares for those who love Him. God bless.

  • 01-06-2009 2:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Pretty easy really,

    Individuals that the right to express their religous convections... governments do not.  Am I offended by Sherman Lea's prayer, nope. But allowing him to place his personal convictions in front of a public forum then obligates the city to allow any such conviction to be represented. I;m hoping the Wiccans get the next chance.

     

  • 01-06-2009 4:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    Ummm...I hate to tell all you so-called-Christians: Please do, as one of you suggested, look up what our founding fathers actually believed and practiced. The US was not founded on Christianty. It was founded on the pricinpal of being free to worship however one sees fit without being persecuted for their beliefs. Citing this crap is one of the reasons our country is always in such hot water. Christiananity has no flexibility, nor love for it's fellow man. It's all about hypocrisy and hatred. I see it every day all around me. At least in certain types of Christianity and they are the ones that think, very dangerously I might add, that their's is the *only* true and right belief and it simply isn't so. More ugly things have been done in the name of someone's God than anything good.

    The real issue here, though, is that the law was broken. And it *was* broken.

  • 01-06-2009 4:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     Some of the settlers came here to escape religious persecution, this is true.  But, this isn't what our country was built on. Period.  I am in NO way wanting a theocracy, by ANY means, but let's not twist history to back up our personal opinions.  Our country was founded by Christian men who wished to be independent of England.  Mainly due to taxes and abuse.  Religion played a VERY small part, if any, as to why they wanted to separate from England.  Anyways, that's beside the point of my comment.

    I agree that making a "show" of our faith in public is most times exactly that, a show.  It is done by many who wish to be exalted and considered more righteous, pious, et cetera.  However, I've been taught from the Bible that a man is supposed to share the love of God with as many people as he can, whenever he can.  I believe Jesus said something about that. 

    Would it do me or my God any good to shout down people walking on the street, warning them of their sin?  It really isn't my style, BUT, here in America, we have the freedom of Speech.  We also have the freedom of Religion. 

    See, this is where the fictional "separation of church and state" nonsense comes into effect. We DO have the Freedom of Speech and the Freedom of Religion, but you must never mix the two on public property.  Otherwise, secular humanists will complain that their tax money is being wasted.

    I can think of a few government funded programs that Christians might find offensive.

     

  • 01-06-2009 4:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

    You're missing the point of all that. Would you want the Gov to tell you what religion you could or could not practice? That's what that's about. Allowing someone *in* Gov to invoke a diety, any deity, smacks of that person fully expecting everyone around him to believe as he does. As a Gov Rep that puts pressure on everyone else who isn't. The free exercise of religion by the people, not the Government.

  • 01-06-2009 4:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     It would take a long time for me to get to the multitude of your misinformed comments and it would probably be to no end. But, I have to say, emphatically, THIS COUNTRY WAS NOT FOUNDED TO COMBAT RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.  It's freedom OF Religion, not FROM religion. 

    I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience with Christians, as to say such things.  But, you are right about one thing...we Christians DO, in fact, believe that the ONLY way... is through Jesus Christ.  Now, it depends on what you want for your future, after death, that is.  If you want eternal life with God in His kingdom(good thing), the only way is through the Son, Jesus Christ. 

    We are all fallable, all weak.  Most of us don't know how to behave or express ourselves the way we should.  Hence, your low opinion of Christians.  But, God loves everyone, even those who currently don't believe.  We ALL have a long way to go.  

    Ok, enough of my prosyletizing (sp).

     

    One last Question:  What religion did the founding father's practice?

     

  • 01-06-2009 4:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Does prayer have a place in government meetings?

     I dont think there should be preaching from the Government.  But, I also do not view this as preaching FROM the government.  These people doing the prayer are NOT govt. employees.  I KNOW what the law says, I disagree with it.  Just as I disagree with many of our taxes and Roe V. Wade.

    A little common sense and tolerance would be a good thing.  Some respect for our country's VAST history of Judeo-Christian values and traditions. 

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