Explore Park plans

Re: Explore Park

fats11 — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:35:22 GMT

here is my idea---the park should be turned over to citizens of Roanoke county and surrounding areas for development into a place for hiking, biking, fishing, camping, etc---whatever the citizens decide to make of it while keeping it mostly natural. AND, we should build a great amphitheater for concerts and plays--better than Wolf Trap!!! All expense and work to be done by volunteers/contributions--no financing or authority by any government organization. This should be our best natural asset for all ages.

It is so unlikely that the current lessee can perform that action can be pursued to save the place asap.

Ed Elswick

Re: Explore Park

Spinnlady — Thu, 14 May 2009 13:53:16 GMT

Oh yes, cwdresmker, there ARE plans to dredge the Roanoke River. During the board meeting a couple of weeks ago, someone asked Vander Maten if he still planned to dredge the river. He responded that he was and that he was still trying to get the permission to do so. I guess that little endangered Roanoke Logperch (Percina rex) who calls the river home will just have to pack his fishy suitcases and try to hop a cab to take him to another river.

For more info on the Roanoke Logperch read this Roanoke Times article:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/198464

Re: Explore Park

cwdresmker — Thu, 14 May 2009 01:18:40 GMT

VERY well said!!

In addition I'd like to know about the "river boat dinner" tour to Smith Mtn Lake??!! What are they going to provide a canoe that may go aground and you'll have to walk it to the next deep river point? OR do they plan on a "dredging plan"?? Anybody ever think of the environmental issues there??

Re: Explore Park

Spinnlady — Wed, 13 May 2009 23:12:32 GMT

Well, Oh My God it the only comment that I can come up with to describe my horror. This whole thing sounds like a pipe dream......even if the economy was great right now, which of course, it is not. It is quite easy to get carried away by the whole concept of Blue Ridge America when you watch the video, until you stop and realize that these are photos and film clips that have been taken all over the country and NOT at Explore Park. Sure, a few of the clips IS of the terrain and buildings at Explore Park, but most are not.

If Blue Ridge American became a reality, here are some things to ponder:

1. What happens to all of the endangered plants that are in the park boundries? Oh yes....there are several located there. Gee, I wonder if any environmental study will be done about that? Or perhaps the Virginia Recreational Facilities Authority, Roanoke County and Virginia Living Histories will just "sweep that under the carpet?"

2. What will happen to all of the wildlife that currently lives on the 1100 acres? Vander Maten was trying to say that they were going to preserve all of the natural aspects of the land. Explain to me how that is going to happen with all of that development?

3. If you are a fan of REAL, HONEST living history, Blue Ridge American will NOT be the place to go. From what I gather, the "history" presented there is not going to be accurate. It will be a "representation" of history.....and not necessarily the history of this region either. In the video clip, it clearly says there will be a historical area representing the year 1890. Well, that is well and fine except are we really going to stand by and see those wonderful ORIGINAL buildings that are part of the Roanoke Valley's heritage used as a generic, inaccurate representation of history? Come on folks, support and be proud of your local history.

4. Wow, an old-time bonfire in the historic area each night? Old-time? Define old-time. Exactly when was that? Most folks in the past had the common sense not to build a huge fire unless they really had to get rid of something. Hmmm...wonder what the Roanoke County Fire Marshall will think of this idea?

5. How many of you folks commute via the section of the Blue Ridge Parkway that runs from 460 to 220? Bet you won't be doing that anymore with the HOARDS of people that will drive to the Roanoke Valley to see Blue Ridge America. Can we say traffic jam?

6. Hmmm......thousands and thousands of people coming to the valley. SUPER great for the economy. SUPER because it will probably be offering a plethora of MINIMUM wage jobs. What about all of the added pollution? The air in the Roanoke Valley is atrocious already and the filthy smoggy air is not only a trial for folks that already have breathing problems, but just think how all of the smog will destroy the views. "Hey, honey......I thought there was supposed to be beautiful mountain views and fresh air here" "Well, there IS honey....you just can't see if for the air pollution."

Obviously, I have ranted enough.

Re: Explore Park

mumbles — Fri, 01 May 2009 03:38:02 GMT

Yawn...why would I spend money to visit this? Imagine this family conversation..."hey kids, for vacation this year we're going to spend 4 days at Blue Ridge America". Good luck with this turkey...

Re: Explore Park

sweetmilk — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:01:08 GMT

This sounds like the opening line to a joke....

" So this guy who owns a chain of nursing homes walks into a bank and says , ' I want to borrow $300 million dollars to build an amusement park' ".

Re: Explore Park

jjwalker — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:53:10 GMT

I actually went to the meeting. His foundation is the funding source for the nearly $2 million spent to date.

I have no idea no idea what his motivation is. I guess you dont either. But to assume he is doing it for money simply because he is a developer is an extremely shallow comment.

I have no problem with people being involved in their community. That is great. But you don't own the land. Have an opinion. But base it on something more than you know best bc you're from here. And something more than what you read in the paper. You really seem to believe the stuff you read from biased editorial staff....They are there to create controversy and sell papers. Go quiz VanderMaten as I did. I believe he is sincere. I believe he wants to enhance our community. I believe he has made a lot of money and could not care any less about making more.....I went into it with a skeptical eye and came away with a different opinion. It is really important for our kids future that we carefully deal with these kinds of issues. Dont be so negative and assume everybody is out to make a buck at any cost. There are people in the world that want to share their wealth, blessings and experiences in life and I believe VanderMaten is one of them.

Re: Explore Park

Saintbridge — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 03:15:14 GMT

The Explore Park area is mine as surely as are my arms and legs.

I live here. I work here. I pay taxes, drive, walk, bike and recreate here.

My family and friends live here. I have a stake in what happens here.

I have to live with the consequences of what happens in my community. Call me illogical, but that is how I see it.

How do I know Mr. Vander Maten is in this just to make money? I say this because he is a developer. Show me that he puts "philanthropist" on his tax form for "occupation" and I'll take it back.

This project is audacious in both scope and expense -- and that is not necessarily a bad thing. I was born at night, but not last night, and that is why I cast a skeptical eye on anything that promises so much -- and has so very few strings attached to it -- with so little oversight or input allowed from the public.

Mr. Vander Maten has his hands full in taking on this project. I wish him luck. And many of us will be watching to see if the best interests of our Valley are being kept front and center as his efforts play out.

Re: Explore Park

jjwalker — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:53:21 GMT

Mark,

Under your scenario, there would be $600 million in available capital, not the required $300 million. $300 million would be equity (and his return on that investment would be $10%), and the developer would borrow $300 million and pay 6% ($18 million) in debt service. You are inadvertently doubling the required capital.

Typically, the equity (that cash requiring a return on investment) would be combined with the debt (the money that is borrowed) and the total would be the required capital for the totality of the project. Think of it in simple terms. Someone wants to buy a rental house that costs $100,000. They would put 20% down (or $20,000) and get a loan for the balance ($80,000). They would expect a return on their investment of $20,000 to the tune of 10%. So, they would expect $2000 to be generated by the rental income. At the same time, they would need to service the debt of $80,000. Using your number of 6%, the rental income would also need to generate $4800 (80,000x6%). In total, the rental income would need to equal $2000 plus $4800 or $6800.

The return on investment for VanderMaten would be 10% only on the equity that is contributed. You are assuming he is contributing 100% of the required capital. You are ALSO assuming he borrows all of the required capital. It is not both. That would generate $600 million in capital.

The non profit status has no bearing on any of this. We are talking about return on equity and debt service, not profit from development.

Any development fee, if any, would be included in the capital budget in the front end of any deal (or part of the $300 million).

Do you see?

Re: Explore Park

Todd F Packer — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:45:22 GMT

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This back and forth is simply quite ridiculous. Vander Maten's plans are ambitious, yes, but if they do work out the valley will benefit greatly. If he has to scale back his plans, the community loses nothing. I don't see what the debate is here. This is the man's money, straight from his pocket, and it is no one's place to tell him how he should spend it. Give this guy a chance and stop being so critical. From what I've read into this guy, he seems like he knows what he's doing. And hopefully, this development will spur new and creative growth all throughout the valley that is necessary to keep Roanoke alive and thriving.

Re: Explore Park

Mark McClain — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 02:06:01 GMT

Good point, but I was assuming that the developer would want to gain something from the project, not just break even. Perhaps 10% is too much. If the numbers work, then I suppose the project will eventually go forward. And another good point is that Vander Maten's oufit that is spearheading this operation is a non-profit corporation, so perhaps there is no expectation that there will be an income flow from the project to that entity. So under that scenario, the per capita expenditures would be about half of my number, definitely a more realistic number . . . but that pesky assumption of 100% occupancy is still a little problematic. He did mention that he would probably do the project in phases, so both the revenue and interest expenses would potentially ramp up. I think in order to make it work there needs to be a pretty significant equity component coming from somewhere. Vander Maten mentioned that there is some interest in venture equity investment, but he didn't give any numbers in the session that I was in.

Re: Explore Park

jjwalker — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 01:32:10 GMT

Saintbridge,

Don't tell me to chill out. Don't speak for others. Stop trying to make this personal. If you can't substantiate your argument withour reverting to statements about how others feel, you should stop posting. This is about an important issue. Get your facts straight, and state them.

How in the world do you know that VanderMaten is only in this to make money?Please be specific in answering this question.

And the statement that the land around here is "ours" is quite a statement. What if I don't like the color you paint your home. Even though you paid for it with your money, do I have the right to dictate what it looks like because I'm from here and it doesn't look right? Your "logic" is questionable at best.

Re: Explore Park

Saintbridge — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:14:33 GMT

JJ,

Before YOU criticize, why don't you check your attitude at the door and be civil in your discourse in this thread. We'd all appreciate it more and take you seriously if we didn't think you were shouting at us all the time.

Thanks.

Re: Explore Park

JudySFink — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:14:09 GMT

I really love the plan to build this "Blue Ridge America". Can you imagine the money it would bring into the Roanoke Area, plus the new jobs there would be in both building this development and then running it! But Roanoke would rather tax their property owners than take advantage of this wonderful idea. Look what it did to the Horse Center. I think, to help get the money to build this, shares should be sold. Maybe if the people around here could put money into it, the gate of "Welcome" would be open for a change.

Re: Explore Park

jjwalker — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:12:52 GMT

Mark,

You want a 10% return on investment (your numbers...not mine) equal to $30 million ($300million x 10%). You ALSO want to service the a debt of $300 million (assume borrowed funds) at 6%, or $18 million. WRONG. A return on investment IS the interest of $18 million. Woops. You're off by $30 million in your analysis. Low and behold....the numbers actually work when you do the analysis correctly. And the EBITDA is hefty at $20-30%! Before you critisize in the future, take a moment to check your math.