Clonnie Yearout:

The worst part of it all is that I was wrong in my prediction!  I hate being wrong.  It happens so infrequently that it's quite devastating to my psyche when it does occur

Clonnie,

It's okay..really.  Everyone gets to make a mistake at least once in their lives and now you've made yours.  Can't think of a better time to be wrong than in predicting a Deeds victory.  We profit from our mistakes and I think you and all Virginians will be better off because you were wrong this time.  I wish you the same failure if you predict an Obama victory in three years.

Clonnie Yearout:

  You're missing the point, Nick -- the point being that the rich have too much money.  How much is too much, you ask?  Well, it depends on who you ask, but don't try to confuse me.  The point is that it's just not right for Americans to have a whole lot of money laying around in their accounts and shoe boxes.   Freedom?  Come on, Nick!  Honestly, I'm trying to help you here, but if you're not going to be serious, this may be a lost cause. 

It was very clever of you to slip in that dig on the government, Nick, but we're wise to your tactics.  Oh, I know you had some facts and figures to back up your argument, but we all know that the real facts and figures prove that punishing, confiscatory tax rates are the most efficient way to grow a vibrant economy.  Freedom?  Well, there you go again!  Come on, Nick -- don't make me laugh!  The concept of freedom is so last century!  Economic equality is the byword of the new millennium, and since forty years of wealth transfer didn't bring the bottom up, we're now going to bring the top down.  One way or the other, we're going to have economic equality, Nick, and the sooner you get used to it the better things will work out for you. 

While you're sitting there waiting, you can read a good book, something like Robin Hood.  Imaging that our beloved government is the modern day Robbing Hood, taking from the rich and giving to the poor.  If you're rich you'll get robbed, but if you're poor you stand to reap a windfall.  Keep repeating to yourself, "Rich people bad -- government good." 

It's really better this way, Nick.  The government's only reason for existence is to help you, and all they want in return is your measly little vote.  I mean, your vote is one of the most valuable things you own.  Why give it away to people who expect you to "suck it up" and "stand on your own two feet."  No, Nick, use your vote wisely.  Give it to Robbing Hood.  Robbing Hood is the only one who truly cares about you. 

 Please, Please, Please Stop, Clonnie!

You have me in tears, sobbing violently, I fear the volume of tears may even short-circuit my keyboard.  It has been a long time since I have heard such a heart  stomach-wrenching tale of woe or such "sweet" compassion.  I feel sure that there is a great book, movie, or surely a great soap opera here.  Let me see . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .Hummmmmm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think I've got it!  We could call it All the King's Bad Men ! . . . . . . . . . . .Oops, I believe Huey Long pretty well has a lock on the major part of that title.   . . . . . . . . . .   Well, how about Dallas?  Right, -- but we could call it Charlottesville or The Beltway?  These just do not convey the same glitzy, smooth image needed to build support for the poor, poor rich.  Wait, wait, wait -- --- ---  How about Atlas Shrugged!  I am sure Annie would not mind lending her title to a great, schmaltzy, emotional, feel-good, poor rich,  drama.   If worried, we could call it Arnie Shrugged, or Norton Shrugged -- how about Norb Shrugged?  Whatcha tink, writer, producer Clooney? 

(Hear gum-chewing and popping, see short-hair in bunches of multi-hued chunks and goth make-up and clothing)  Sharron Smith, Associate Producer and Artiste in Residence, Dream On Studios  

Marvin..." Hey Gip, We quite often agree, but this time I am not sure.  I have never been in his district and haven't watched his actions too closely.  However one place where I saw his as a stumbling block to progress was his efforts (along with Ralph Smith and others) to block anti-smoking legislation.  Since this was/is something that I strongly support, I was less than pleased with their willingness to put tobacco interests ahead of public health.  I would not rule out voting for him, but would have to think about it.  You are right in saying he is a powerhouse in the state.

And oh yes, I think Virginia made a statement in this election.  I certainly hope so and I hope some people take note.

Good morning Marvin. Perhaps we disagree on the smoking thing. I personally don't care who chooses to smoke, drink, eat mushrooms, burn incense, dip snuff, or whatever...just don't do it in my space or face. Common sense courtesy, no need to create a law for every dang thing. Otherwise, I agree with you too. I must say, Morgan has forgotten more about government than I will ever know, so much of my praise for him stems from growing up with, and knowing him to have the utmost integrity. I feel certain by any standard he is competent, capable, and truly votes the way he thinks is best, oblivious to any lobbyist. That is my true belief, and I certainly respect yours. Gip

 Gip,

Great endorsement for him.  I'll take your word on it and would probably support him on your recommendation.  I believe you are positioning yourself to be campaign manager for him!!!!! You would do a great job....just think of all the base of support you could have from this panel.

Marvin..."Great endorsement for him.  I'll take your word on it and would probably support him on your recommendation.  I believe you are positioning yourself to be campaign manager for him!!!!! You would do a great job....just think of all the base of support you could have from this panel."

Thanks Marvin, and I mean it. With your support, and 50 cents, I would have both support from yourself, AND coffee. This particular stellar panel is truly multi-faceted, and have come to believe what they do over time...semi-bulletproof to change. But, I would not mention it at all if I had any doubt, or was not certain in my mind about Mr. Griffith, and said integrity. It is NOT true I HAVE to vote for him because he is Salem born and bred, but I would be lying if I said I had not noticed. You rock Marvin, and I admire the way you are so comfortable in your own skin. Gip

Clonnie Yearout:

Oh yeah... the new topic.  I'm betting on something relative to the election:  "Does the land-slide victory by Republican candidates in Virginia signal a sea-change in state politics, or were the voters simply having a temper tantrum?"

While I assume Clonnie's possible topic above was tongue in cheek, he may be on to something! Here are a few more to add to his:

Is Virginia now a bellwether state in elections?

Are local elections adversely impacted by statewide elections?

Was a small voter turnout (~6% at the Democratic Primary) a major factor in the election of Bob McDonnell? Would either a different candidate or a stronger stand on issues won for the Democratic Party? (I liked Creigh Deeds but not enough did.)

Just having fun speculating!!!

Ms. Sharapova, Deb..."Was a small voter turnout (~6% at the Democratic Primary) a major factor in the election of Bob McDonnell? Would either a different candidate or a stronger stand on issues won for the Democratic Party? (I liked Creigh Deeds but not enough did.)  Just having fun speculating!!!"

Deb, the 6% thing is truly sad. I also find sad the way the TV ads are scripted, presented, and have zero credibility...in my book anyway. It is a matter of "How low can we go?" when the "other" fellow/gal is cast in dark light, unshaven/unwaxed...ha, and a pic is used that would scare a post office wall. Consistently pounding out a message of 4 or 5 main differences sure would be better. Then we may have a clue as to what a politician actually stands for. Any time some one speaks poorly of the other, and speaks nothing of what they believe or intend to do if elected, I deem it crap. Hence, all the ads I saw were crap. I'm just saying/venting. Gip

Gibson Brown:

Any time some one speaks poorly of the other, and speaks nothing of what they believe or intend to do if elected, I deem it crap. Hence, all the ads I saw were crap.

Gip, you have a way of netting it out.  I think the negative speak about the opponent is the way nearly all politicians avoid saying what they really stand for...if they stand for anything beyond getting votes to get elected.

Marvin Foster:

Gibson Brown:

Any time some one speaks poorly of the other, and speaks nothing of what they believe or intend to do if elected, I deem it crap. Hence, all the ads I saw were crap.

 

 

Gip, you have a way of netting it out.  I think the negative speak about the opponent is the way nearly all politicians avoid saying what they really stand for...if they stand for anything beyond getting votes to get elected.

 Gip and Marvin--- I think you are right. Negative politics has never appealed to me either. Don't you think it is done because it must work for the candidate on some level? That is the only explanation I can think of for why it has been this way for so long.

Deb Landgraf:

Negative politics has never appealed to me either. Don't you think it is done because it must work for the candidate on some level? That is the only explanation I can think of for why it has been this way for so long.

Deb,

I think you are right.  We (all of us) also share some of the blame.  We readily remember the negatives against a candidate, but seldom ask ourselves and/or the candidates what they would really do to improve things on a particular issue and we don't question if their proposals are really realistic and in the best long-term interest of the public or just a quick fix to relieve the pain.

Nick Prout:

I don't know about the defense minister implication as that is on the harsh side, but I don't see that small group of people being the only root cause of our economic problems. Norb has some salient points in the article and one thing that crossed my mind while reading it was other differences between the economic state of the US in the 60's and now.

Correct, American society and our federal government are not what they were 30-40 years ago.  I think that's sort of a diversion from Norb's point about top-executive compensation and income taxes.  Yes, public assistance such as food for low-income families, Medicare, and Medicaid are expensive.  They are not a cure for poverty and were never intended to serve that purpose.

The problem with public education is not a "huge layer of [federal] bureaucracy," and most of the money does go to schools.  Congress likes to pass mandates for the states and then underfund them.  The federal government has not quite "taken over" public education, but No Child Left Behind is wrecking it by requiring impossible goals that are politically popular but educationally absurd.  We discussed NCLB and SOL testing last spring.  It's a train wreck a-comin'. 

Anyway, we can't roll back the clock.  You sidestepped the point of Norb's commentary (while acknowleding that it had "some salient points").  I think we can conclude that Norb won that round.

Clonnie Yearout:

It's really better this way, Nick.  The government's only reason for existence is to help you, and all they want in return is your measly little vote.  I mean, your vote is one of the most valuable things you own.  Why give it away to people who expect you to "suck it up" and "stand on your own two feet."  No, Nick, use your vote wisely.  Give it to Robbing Hood.  Robbing Hood is the only one who truly cares about you

Dave Hanson:

Sorry, I did not realize you were so sensitive to needling.  I always assume that a person who dishes it out can take it (recalling some of your harsh words about single moms receiving public assistance, the "irresponsible" working poor without health insurance, etc.).  How about if I refer to you as the resident champion of laissez-faire capitalism? 

I guess the tongue stretching the cheek wasn't apparent. No offense taken, and, on second thought, the position of defense minister sounds very cool. I'll have to try it on for size.

One more point about Norbs rant article is something he has conveniently sidestepped on the several occasions he has mentioned exec pay. When the top marginal rates were lowered in the 80's, a large percentage of available tax deductions went out the window at the same time. Although I am sure that it wasn't a wash, it theoretically took some of the "sting" out of the perceived loss in taxes to the Fed people. I didn't have time to go into that earlier this morning, but that  might qualify as semi-salient and not perceived as sailing around Commodore Norb's point. Any port in a storm!

Still friends, Norb.

Deb Landgraf:

Clonnie Yearout:

Oh yeah... the new topic.  I'm betting on something relative to the election:  "Does the land-slide victory by Republican candidates in Virginia signal a sea-change in state politics, or were the voters simply having a temper tantrum?"

 

While I assume Clonnie's possible topic above was tongue in cheek, he may be on to something! Here are a few more to add to his:

Is Virginia now a bellwether state in elections?

Are local elections adversely impacted by statewide elections?

Was a small voter turnout (~6% at the Democratic Primary) a major factor in the election of Bob McDonnell? Would either a different candidate or a stronger stand on issues won for the Democratic Party? (I liked Creigh Deeds but not enough did.)

Just having fun speculating!!!

Deb,

 Some thoughts on the election.

Deeds was a loser. He did not look the part and he was a lousy public speaker. McD was a slick and polished candidate. Deeds may be a good negotiator in low key actions, but he did not look like a possible stand up leader. And, his vote to override the governor's veto of the guns in bars bill caused many Dems to stay home and not vote for him.

The Democratic primary showed how dumb the state Dem leadership is. Since there was no Republican primary, they couid choose to vote in the democratic primary. A Republican friend in Richmond told me that there was an organized effort for them to vote for Deeds as he was presumed to be a much weaker candidate than McAuliffe, who could tap the party's national treasury. With the low turnout, this could have been a significant factor.

With only two major elections going on, the gubernatorial races in Virginia and New Jersey, the national GOP could put their big advantage in money collected to good use. I'd like to see the actual expenditures, but I felt that there was about a 5 to 1 advantage in quantity of GOP and NRA ads vs the Deeds ads. Ads do make a difference, otherwise parties would not be using them. And the GOP ads were much better, blending pie in the sky promises and pokes at imaginary demons. The Deeds ads looked as if they were written by amateurs.

As to national significance, I doubt that there is any. The issues were local, and the candidates personalities were a major factor. Deeds was a weak candidate, and Corazine was a crook. In the 2008 election in Virginia, Obama got 1.959,532 votes, and McCain got 1,725,005. In this election McD got 1,082,671, so he was not as popular as McCain. And, Deeds got only 760,122 a little more than a third of what Obama got, so Democrats pretty much rejected him. But, this might be a lesson for the Blue Dog Democrats who are trying to be both Democrats and Republicans; it didn't pay off too well for Deeds -- the voters might decide to replace them with full fledged Republicans.

Norb

Lame Latin:   iIligitimus non carborundum est

                      (Don't let the bastards grind you down)

Nick Prout:

One more point about Norbs rant article is something he has conveniently sidestepped on the several occasions he has mentioned exec pay. When the top marginal rates were lowered in the 80's, a large percentage of available tax deductions went out the window at the same time. Although I am sure that it wasn't a wash, it theoretically took some of the "sting" out of the perceived loss in taxes to the Fed people. I didn't have time to go into that earlier this morning, but that  might qualify as semi-salient and not perceived as sailing around Commodore Norb's point. Any port in a storm!

Still friends, Norb.

 

Nick,

I can't side-step what I can't see. You have referred to these perceived deductions before, but I have no idea what they were. i can't envision enough deductions to hide $7.44 milllion of income, but maybe I'm naive (For bottled water drinkers, that's Evian spelled backwards). 

Perhaps you can illuminate me and advise the details on those deductions. Of course, discussion of them would not fit into the RT word limits on Commentary, but at least we could be talking about specifics.

Norb