Clonnie Yearout:

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I suspect that had my daughter been born in 1878 instead of 1978 her childbirth experience may have ended quite differently.  In an era when natural childbirth was the only option, many women and children died during, or as a result of the birthing process.  I have no desire to return to that era and I suspect most women feel the same way.  I am for allowing women the freedom to decide the degree of medical assistance they wish to receive during childbirth, and if there are doctors or medical facilities who interfere in that decision I stand against them.  Admittedly, my knowledge and experience is limited here, but I have a hard time seeing this as a widespread problem.  Then again, I could be wrong -- I am a man after all. 

My apologies to Dave.  I should have supported him sooner, but we're pretty typical males here on the panel.  If we have a Sergeant York who's willing to run out into no-man's land and take one for the team, our tendency is to duck down and yell, "Go get 'em Sarge!"

Thanks, Clonnie.  Dave is determined to spend less time with Voices of the Valley and more time at the beach or in the pool.  Dr. Sally could not come to the beach because (as you may know, being an EMS guy) all across America the new medical school grads start residency on July 1, like the perennial hatching of the baby sea turtles, and the newbie docs need suvervision.  As the senior resident in her department, she has to stay on the job this weekend.  Every human baby entering the world should be so lucky as to be in her hands, whether it requires a simple vaginal delivery, a tricky one requiring some careful untangling, twisting and turning, or a c-section birth.  Some people might prefer the at-home midwife approach without an obstretician in a hospital, we respect their right to make that decision, and it usually worked out fine on the prairie in the 19th century; but you never know what risky complications might occur.   Happy Independence Day weekend!  Woof woof woof!

Robin Hinrichs:

The feminine in me hates conflict..... :-) 

Exactly! 

Normally when a human experiences conflict or is afraid, the primal brain stem kicks in overriding the neocortex, the body is flooded with adrenaline in preparation to either "fight or flight".  Adrenaline is a hormone that stops the progress of labor.  Imagine primal humans: a pregnant woman in labor walking down to the stream to get some water and she sees a tiger.  Her body would instinctively flood her system with adrenaline, stopping labor, giving her the energy to move to a safer location where labor would start up again.

Now move ahead to modern times with women who still have the same hormonal wiring as primitive woman.  How a woman feels during labor directly impacts the way her body is able to function in labor.  This challenges Descartes theory of the human body functioning as a machine.  Smells, sounds and the ability to move around have all been shown to influence whether a mother is able to relax and literally open her body to the experience of birth or if she does not feel safe they can cause her to tense up and stop the progress of labor.  This is the type of research that wasn't available when Dave's children were born.  This is the type of research that can help explain why Clonnie's daughter wasn't able to progress in her labor even though she was treated respectfully.  Actually one could make the case that Clonnie's daughter was very feminine and womanly.  Her birthing experiences and all women's birthing experiences are worthy of respect.

We live in a nation that spends more money than any other nation on maternity care.   We have machines with bells and whistles, sterile conditions and trained surgeons attending births.  Yet our neonatal mortality rates are the worst of industrialized nations and our maternal mortality rates continue to climb.  Recent research is confronting us with the reality that we can not deny the mind-body connection of the feminine.  We are not machines.  We are humans.

What amazes me about that mother's story is: after she was told by a hospital employee that the Dr. had called to have a court order to force her to have a cesarean that the mother ran down a stairwell in her barefeet and went home, after she went home and then was dragged back to the hospital by a sheriff, after she stood in the operating room with a judge on the phone and while in labor told the judge her reasons for refusing the cesarean; that right before they performed the surgery they checked her dilation and she was at 9 cm (only 1 cm before she could have started pushing) and they knew her uterus hadn't ruptured and they still forced her to have surgery against her will.  WOW!  Under all that stress and also being dehydrated (that's the initial reason she had gone to the hospital was for an IV for hydration, which they never gave her) her body still opened up to allow her baby to be born.  Extraordinary!

Ricky:

Dave is determined to spend less time with Voices of the Valley and more time at the beach or in the pool.

Dali is jealous of you in the waves.  All she got to do was sit in a creek at the park.  Maybe we can run into you when you get back.  You can tell us if you caught any seagulls :)

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dali is jealous of you in the waves.  All she got to do was sit in a creek at the park.  Maybe we can run into you when you get back.  You can tell us if you caught any seagulls :) 

Nope, I'm too old and slow to catch one, but I've spooked quite a few birds at the beach.  I am a magnet for young ladies, though.  Regards to Dali.

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

We live in a nation that spends more money than any other nation on maternity care.   We have machines with bells and whistles, sterile conditions and trained surgeons attending births.  Yet our neonatal mortality rates are the worst of industrialized nations and our maternal mortality rates continue to climb.

Freeda, are you implying that a woman who chooses to have her baby in a hospital, receiving modern medical care for labor and delivery, is thereby elevating the danger to herself and her baby?  It would be safer to leave the United States, go to a developing country, and have the baby far away from doctors and hospitals?

Dave Hanson:

Freeda, are you implying that a woman who chooses to have her baby in a hospital, receiving modern medical care for labor and delivery, is thereby elevating the danger to herself and her baby?  It would be safer to leave the United States, go to a developing country, and have the baby far away from doctors and hospitals?

It depends on the mother.  Some mothers would feel safer with the smells and sounds of the hospital.  The births with fewer complications are going to happen when the mother feels safe and supported.  The countries with the lowest infant mortality rates are the ones who provide quality midwifery care for all pregnant women and access to quality obstetric care to pregnant women who develop complications.   The countries with the lower mortality rates have quality care providers for homebirths, birthing centers and hospital births. 

It's not really an "either/or" solution but a more "and/both" solution. Women like to be different and to have choices.  Guys can show up to an event with the same dark suit on and nobody cares.  But if two women show up in the same dress, well, meow :)

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db09.htm

Scroll down to the comparison of the industrial nations chart and you'll see the US really stands out (not in a good way).

Dave Hanson:

It would be safer to leave the United States, go to a developing country, and have the baby far away from doctors and hospitals?

No.  Just wanted to be clear :)

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Some mothers would feel safer with the smells and sounds of the hospital. 

And some mothers would feel safer with an obstetrician and registered labor/deliverry nurse (plus a midwife, perhaps), in a place with ultrasound, fetal monitors, and other helpful technology, plus a surgical wing for a c-section just in case....  I think medical professionals know the difference between machines and humans and treat their patients well.  You may disagree with that; I'm headed for the beach.

P.S. Thanks for conceding that "it would [not] be safer to leave the United States, go to a developing country, and have the baby far away from doctors and hospitals."  We are making progress toward common ground.  : )

Sharron Smith:

What on earth did I say that warranted this reply?

Clonnie Yearout:

It was just a lame attempt at humor that obviously bombed, and it wasn't even aimed at you, even though I used your post.  Again, I apologize.

Uh oh.  I thought I was the only guy whose lame attempts at humor got him into trouble here, Clonnie.  We are getting to be so close that I'm going to have to call you my BFAM.*

*Brother From Another Mother... (spoken: Brotha From Anotha Motha)

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

Dave Hanson:

It would be safer to leave the United States, go to a developing country, and have the baby far away from doctors and hospitals?

No.  Just wanted to be clear :) 

On a lighter note, my daughter has delivered babies in several underdeveloped countries, most recently Thailand.  After an especially tricky delivery, in which she wowed the local medical professionals and won the eternal gratitude of the mom and dad, the family showed their thanks with a gift of fresh fruit and a live chicken.  Being a vegetarian, she kept the chicken as a pet.  When she told me that story, I immediately thought of "Doc Hollywood" and his pig.

Dave Hanson:

the family showed their thanks with a gift of fresh fruit and a live chicken.  Being a vegetarian, she kept the chicken as a pet. 

Sounds like an extraordinary lady.  Wonderful of her to share her knowledge and help those in need.  Someone I'd be honored to meet. 

Part of what I'm working on with others is trying to bring down the malpractice rates and the bureaucratic ins. decisions that are tying the doctors' hands and preventing patients from having access to choices.  Hopefully something that your daughter might benefit from in the future.  Insurance is my true calling of expertise and passion.  I know no one likes insurance people but I can't help but love insurance, the stats and analysis just makes me happy to crunch numbers and see if there are clues to probability, risks, benefits....  Sorry I know others find the stuff boring.

Clonnie Yearout:

It was just a lame attempt at humor that obviously bombed, and it wasn't even aimed at you,

I think it was a jab at my post where I was LOL at the Thick As A Brick misunderstanding.  One can be a father to a child without siring the child.  I wasn't trying to dismiss the important work of fathering.  I was trying to be more delicate than the song actually is :)

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

I think it was a jab at my post where I was LOL at the Thick As A Brick misunderstanding.

Hey Deb. I agree with yourself and etc., about missing Tony, and his stellar input. So, as a team guy, here is my attempt to awaken Tony from his probable penthouse slumber. I picture him with hair slightly askew, empties on the table, and just about to finish writing a killer book. Many of my high friends in low places are out on the street looking for Tony as I type this morning. We intend to find him, and bring him back. Did UNC win? I can't read the sports section this morning due to an obviously faked game(see: moon landing hoax?) where GT whupped VT...as if that could happen. #9 for GT is a player, and ran the triple option with great results. I don't have to like it. Gip