Dave Hanson:

Maybe it's the difference between introductory survey courses, which are mostly what I teach, and upper division junior/senior level courses. 

It's usually the upper level courses but if you're a slow reader then it can be very challenging for any level.  I'm glad I took a speed readding class when I was in high school.  I'm a slow reader and I enjoy reading slowly.  I have very high comprehension when I read slowly.  I can speek read but my reading comprehension drops significantly when I do but at least in the course was well within acceptable and average reading comprehension levels.  I'm also a kinesthetic learner so just reading and listening to lectures didn't do it for me.  I needed to take notes and it bothered me when the professor would say its in the handout and it would bother me today if the professor said its on the website.  i needed to hear, read and write what the material was in order to absorb it.  Later I would solve it by talking outloud while I rewrote the notes from the handout if I wasn't able to keep up in class.

College gave me the opportunity to learn how I learn best and how to accomplish the best I could under challenging situaitons.  At least they were challenging for me.  Other people, especially those who are visual or auditory learners probably did not have the challenges I did in college.  BTW I was a English major who switched to History with a minor concentration in Psychology.  That involved a bunch of reading!

Freeda Lynne Cathcart:

I'm also a kinesthetic learner so just reading and listening to lectures didn't do it for me.  I needed to take notes and it bothered me when the professor would say its in the handout and it would bother me today if the professor said its on the website.  i needed to hear, read and write what the material was in order to absorb it.  Later I would solve it by talking outloud while I rewrote the notes from the handout if I wasn't able to keep up in class.

You raised the issue of learning styles, and I wonder how many students who graduate from high school and head for college understand this.  I am more of a visual learner than an auditory learner.  Much of an audio presentation will go in one ear and put the other, but if I read the words the information will sink in.  Professors have their teaching style and students have their best learning style.  I typically have about 30-40 students in a class, so there are bound to be students with different learning styles.  Students need to know how to make the best use of their strengths and compensate for their weaknesses.  If the professor lectures and uses PowerPoint, they can ask for a hard copy of the slides.  Some students like to tape-record lectures.  (The professor might say "sorry," or "sure."  It never hurts to ask.) 

You said "it would bother me if the professor said it's on the website."  Let me be clear about what I meant.  My lectures are on the website to read before or after class.  (Few of my colleagues do this.  It's a bonus, a courtesy for my students and also, I think, an enhancement to my classroom teaching.  It's especially valuable for my online students for obvious reasons.)  I go over the highlights in class.  This gives me time for discussion, elaboration, anecdotes, dog tales, etc.  If students can't or won't read outside of class, that is going to be a serious disadvantage whatever the professor's teaching style.

Dave, borrowing Ricky's computer

Joe Merola:

The silliest of symptoms (in addition to multiple valedictorians) is that red pen should not be used to correct papers - it is too demeaning.  Sigh again.

Dave knows instructors who only grade in green.  He grades with whatever color pen is handy (red, green, blue, purple).  He is not convinced that red ink is emotionally destructive to college students.  He thinks that reasonably challenging assignments and tests, fairly graded and with helpful feedback, probably are not too demeaning in any color.  (An F in green can't be much better than an F in red.)

Gibson Brown:

I'll bite...what drives a turbo? Hamster? Gip

Two words...

Hot air

Freeda..."Later I would solve it by talking out loud while I rewrote the notes from the handout if I wasn't able to keep up in class. College gave me the opportunity to learn how I learn best and how to accomplish the best I could under challenging situations"

Hey Freeda, you bring up a great point. I think most have some sort of difficulty to overcome before learning takes place. I joined the Coast Guard at 19, they shaved my head and called me stupid for 8 weeks, and I went straight from a sports minded girl chasing high school career(voted most likely to underachieve 3 years running I was), and then boot camp, and right to six months of 5 days a week 8-4 electronics, radar, theory out the yang, and etc, plus I was still buzz boy haircut-wise. Anyway, my first day I thought the pile of reading looked like it would take 10 years to read through, and when I found out it was the first weeks worth of reading, I felt that knot in the stomach one gets. Then I found out 50% would flunk out, and they were to be the lowest of the lowly ranked on a buoy tender in the Gulf of Mexico or such. Panic ruled. Fly-boy or flunk out? I scrambled big time, and for the first time ever I learned how I learn best, by trial, error, and fear. I found the high liter in yellow to really be my friend. I could keep the mental picture in my brain when I read and highlighted the major points. Made reviewing better for me too. I also found making acronyms anytime possible, or making my own custom short-hand over time very helpful for note taking. I feel that fear is a big time motivator, as long as it pushes you, and does not cause the deer in headlights thing. Your "learning how to learn" slant is very true. Good hustle on your part to overcome...you must be stubborn too! Gip

Joe Merola:

Tanya Villani:

  I am saddened when High Schools no longer have one Valedictorian and one Salutatorian.  I had never heard of such a thing until I moved to VA.  What does that teach them to have many?  Competition can be a good thing, but if often can cause other problems that lead to pride, envy, malice, destruction, violence, etc.  All under the name of "just getting ahead in life"

In the dictionary Valedictorian means: best student: the student who delivers the valedictory address at graduation. Salutatorian means: second best graduate: in the United States, a student in a graduating class who is second highest in academic ranking, usually required to give a salutatory at the graduation ceremony.

Coming in second can equip those students to try harder next time.  It also teaches students to share when someone else is honored.  Humbleness is a great trait to have, but it has to be developed.

I am a proponent that a healthy self-esteem is important for success in life.  Unfortunately, some with great influence in school systems somehow feel this concept means that we cannot say anything to correct a student because it might hurt their self-esteem.  True self-esteem only comes with true accomplishment and failure and learning to handle both in a mature way.  The silliest of symptoms (in addition to multiple valedictorians) is that red pen should not be used to correct papers - it is too demeaning.    Sigh again.

Tanya and Joe - I hear what you are saying but respectfully disagree. Back in the day when they honored just two individuals, my husband was the Salutatorian in his high school. Our daughter was one of several Cave Spring Valedictorians several years ago. My opinion is that there is more stress in the world of teens these days with higher expectations and more competition. Why not honor all of those that have achieved through their hard work a GPA of 4.0 or higher? Make it more about personal achievement and less about competition that only two can attain. That's my 2-cents worth.

By the way, I am so happy to be able to communicate with all of you fine folks again! I could not sign in for the longest time-technical difficulties.

Deb

Gibson Brown:

I'll bite...what drives a turbo? Hamster? Gip

Nick..."Two words...Hot air"

Mr. Nick-man-do, I will simply say "be careful", the frying pan is back in town. Would you care to elaborate on where, or to what the "Hot air" comment applies to? We have established so far...Teacher/Prof. have turbo-craniums...and then what drives them?...and then you said "Hot air." Please elaborate at your own risk. I for one see zero connection between hot air and teachers. Hmmm? Gip 

Gibson Brown:

I'll bite...what drives a turbo?

Hot air (i.e., exhaust gases ). <g>

Deb Landgraf:

Tanya and Joe - I hear what you are saying but respectfully disagree. Back in the day when they honored just two individuals, my husband was the Salutatorian in his high school. Our daughter was one of several Cave Spring Valedictorians several years ago. My opinion is that there is more stress in the world of teens these days with higher expectations and more competition. Why not honor all of those that have achieved through their hard work a GPA of 4.0 or higher? Make it more about personal achievement and less about competition that only two can attain. That's my 2-cents worth.

Deb:  This wouldn't have worked in my graduating class.  I was 9th out of 276, and my gpa was 3.9661.  Both the valedictorian and the salutatorian had averages above 4, and if I'm not mistaken, the top 5 were at or over 4.  We would have never gotten out of there!

Leesa

Deb Landgraf:

Joe Merola:

Tanya Villani:

  I am saddened when High Schools no longer have one Valedictorian and one Salutatorian.  I had never heard of such a thing until I moved to VA.  What does that teach them to have many?  Competition can be a good thing, but if often can cause other problems that lead to pride, envy, malice, destruction, violence, etc.  All under the name of "just getting ahead in life"

In the dictionary Valedictorian means: best student: the student who delivers the valedictory address at graduation. Salutatorian means: second best graduate: in the United States, a student in a graduating class who is second highest in academic ranking, usually required to give a salutatory at the graduation ceremony.

Coming in second can equip those students to try harder next time.  It also teaches students to share when someone else is honored.  Humbleness is a great trait to have, but it has to be developed.

I am a proponent that a healthy self-esteem is important for success in life.  Unfortunately, some with great influence in school systems somehow feel this concept means that we cannot say anything to correct a student because it might hurt their self-esteem.  True self-esteem only comes with true accomplishment and failure and learning to handle both in a mature way.  The silliest of symptoms (in addition to multiple valedictorians) is that red pen should not be used to correct papers - it is too demeaning.    Sigh again.

 

Tanya and Joe - I hear what you are saying but respectfully disagree. Back in the day when they honored just two individuals, my husband was the Salutatorian in his high school. Our daughter was one of several Cave Spring Valedictorians several years ago. My opinion is that there is more stress in the world of teens these days with higher expectations and more competition. Why not honor all of those that have achieved through their hard work a GPA of 4.0 or higher? Make it more about personal achievement and less about competition that only two can attain. That's my 2-cents worth.

By the way, I am so happy to be able to communicate with all of you fine folks again! I could not sign in for the longest time-technical difficulties.

Deb

Deb,

   I don't think we disagree - I think that all of the students should be honored for their achievement, but not by making 10 valedictorians.  There are other ways.  My problem is when any honor is avoided to keep from "hurting someone's feelings".  At one of my daughter's 5th grade ceremonies (leaving elementary school) the only honors mentioned were physical fitness and perfect attendance.  No mention of academics at all.

Gibson Brown:

Sandi, some hard ball going on the other day eh? You are tough, and my friend I hope. Was interesting, but in my opinion, not the same consideration of both sides as one gets with this group. I doubt one mind was changed. Black and white subject matter though. Enjoyed it. Gip

 Oh Gip, you know it.  The RT can be a mud fest on some topics!  You were spot on though.  A couple others from Voices come over as well although no, none are as aggressive and in your face as me.  Come back any time, some topics are really interesting (today) but most have pointed barbs, not the 'Queensbury' rules like here.  This is the braintrust and I am humbled to be allowed in.

I haven't been able to participate this week due to the time consuming grunt labor of moving to the new place.

All of the brilliant suggestions that I had for the college bound have been stolen by other panelists.

Let me offer some less that brilliant notions.

Don't ask for anyone else's opinion. You've finally broken free from the shackles of 12 years of forced education. Do something on your own. Make your own mistakes and be prepared to pay for them.

Listen to Auntie Mame. “ Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death”

Whatever you do, no matter how hard, remember that “Fun is Fundamental”.

Back in the day (when we rode the dinosaur uphill both ways to school), my high school had a TOP TEN.  I was in there.  Everyone was listed according to rank so all knew 1 and 2...All had a role in the graduation ceremony and all felt the pat on the back but ALL knew that 1 and 2 were Valedictorian and Salutatorian even if they were not singled out further.  When so many are bunched up closely, what does it hurt?   To quote my pal Gip, I'm just sayin'.

:)

 Joe C..."Hot air (i.e., exhaust gases )."

Hey Joe, technically speaking I knew that. I was ready for a punch line. Way to play it safe via the "(ie./ exhaust gases)". Do your pups fly what looks to be a single engine low wing A/C in the background of your picture? I have 42 solo hours + more with the instructor sleeping beside me, in a Cessna 172 4 seater. I knew all the instruments and could repair them from being fresh out of the best dang service ever, the USCG! I cheated death, and just love flying. When I too am rich and famous, I hope to fly again...expensive stuff. Do you fly? Gip

Sandi..."The RT can be a mud fest on some topics!"

Hey Sandi, you hold your own and don't back down. To be admired. I did not see why our Mother's had to be drug into it. I was waiting for "I'm rubber and you're glue" to come out. I'll check back, I enjoy trying to talk my idea of sense among the madness. Keep fighting the good fight. Gip