What do you think of the proposals set out for Explore Park?

While I agree that the Explore Park site would likely need more activities and recreation available to make the site self-sustaining -- I think Vander Maten's proposals are quite outlandish.

Upon first glance, it sounds nice - a place to stay, place to eat, cutting edge recreational activities, enjoying natural beauty and experiencing history. Then the proposal goes on...everything is the LARGEST, LONGEST and the BIGGEST in the WORLD. A 40 foot bonfire with cowboy camp songs? A chuck wagon lunch after horseback riding? And then I had to laugh at the light show at the Roanoke River. At the meeting I attended, someone behind me commented "You mean the Roanoke River that I don't let my dog drink out of?"

Again, I do think he has some good ideas, but he needs to be more realistic!

In my opinion, the best thing that could happen is that the site will go under the control of the Department of Conservation and Recreation. Our local governments have shown that they can't financially support the site. Yes, times are lean at the state level too  - but at least the state could maintain a base of conservation and open hiking trails/biking trails until times are better. Maybe then the state could build onto that and offer some lodging and additional recreation.  Making this a park for ALL (not just those who can afford it's fees and admissions)!

 I think it is the most ridiculous plan I have ever heard of. This plan is waaaaaayyyyy too expensive and all for explore park which by the way is not all that interesting. I've been there once  and never returned as once you've seen it., well need I say more...I cannot believe that anyone is even thinking about sinking that much money into such a bad plan....

plus. why is a florida-based developer being asked,why not use a local company? WHY DOES RKE ALWAYS DO STUPID STUFF LIKE THIS? 

 I personally believe that Mr. Vander Maten is taking all of us for a big, fat ride ! His plan is unrealistic and not at all suited for this area. He made no mention of the environmental impact this plan will have on the Explore Park area or the areas surrounding it. He says he isn't an accountant and can't really talk about the money aspect of his plan. How can anyone take him seriously? I think he's nuts and we should all just pat him on the head and send him on his way. I agree with NT that the Dept. of Conservation and Recreation would be the next logical choice for taking over the former Explore Park. I'm all for bringing in jobs and recreation to the area but this guy ( Vander Maten) has no concept of what the Roanoke Valley and this beautiful place we all call home is all about. I hope he takes his crazy, mixed up development plans back to Florida where they belong.

Let's let the state do everything for us. Great idea. Maybe they can do it better and cheaper. What a joke. They did a great job the first time around funding and building Explore.

I applaud Mr. VanderMaten for having vision and spending HIS OWN MONEY to investigate the viability of providing a beautiful asset for the people of the Roanoke Valley to utilize. His organization is non-profit, and he seems vey concerned with ecological and historical issues. To me, his plan represents thoughtful development at its best.

People like you want to critisize every progressive measure advanced. It is because you are jealous of those that work hard and can afford nicer things. You want your fellow taxpayer to pay for everything through the state so you can have it for free. You want to walk in the woods for free? Great. There are two million acres surrounding Roanoke owned by various governments. Have at it. Allowing and supporting 1200 acres of conscientious development is not going to hurt you in any way. Stop punishing those who care enough to think bigger than your small little world.

 Actually JJ, I work very hard, have a professional job, am not scared of change - and would like to think that I can afford some of the nicer things. So let's not group all people who have alternative visions for the site into and turn it into a personal attack.

However, our state parks system is a great asset to the community and residents from all over. And often State Parks DO charge fees - there are definitely fees for staying overnight in their facilties, as well as usage and entrance fees. I'm not opposed to things costing money for people to use - but I would like to suggest that it would be a more affordable alternative for most people. Not everyone can spend big bucks to go to nature resorts - but more people can spend some to stay in a state or national park.

My point is that I'm not sure that all of Mr. Vander Maten's development IS thoughtful -- I think some of it is over the top. If he started construction tomorrow of a scaled-back version of what I've seen -- cool. I really think people would come to do many of those activities -- but some of it is a little silly! My point is that DCR could still provide many of those activities and outdoor attractions without the park being a novelty.

You don't get it. We have many, many state and federal parks. GO USE THEM. For those of us who don't mind spending our hard earned bucks on something nicer, it would ge great to have that alternative. Why must you oppose everything that you can't afford or choose not to buy? Who cares if some of the stuff is over the top? DON'T GO THERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO. Just don't limit the choices I have because you don't like it. Don't forget it's HIS MONEY taking the risk on the investment-so butt out whether it is silly or not. The market will determine that. Of course if DCR builds something....you and I as taxpayers are taking the entire risk. THINK!

 If you build it they will come!

Lets take a look at the big picture here....  Jobs, tourism, revenue, JOBS!....  Face it, the Roanoke Valley isn't the hottest job market in the country right now.  This will directly create jobs as well as indirectly create jobs in terms of new retail and hospitality services.  I applaud Mr. Vander Maten as well.  People will come, people will most definitely come.... Add this to the successful art musem, and our amphtheatre plans and we will start to see money roll into this area..... 

I ask people to open their minds and use their imagination.... I know such progressive thinking is hard for most of the older population to comprehend, but its time to move forward, not stay at our current non-progressive, stagnant pace.

I have read the story and watched the video and I don't see this project going anywhere anytime soon.

I am curious when this project could go forward -- even at a scaled back pace -- given the economic climate.

All this construction looks like it could not help but have an adverse impact on the environment. The county's lack of foresight on the Slate Hill-Lowe's-Home Depot-Clearbrook WalMart area shows that we cannot count on its leaders to use good judgment in ushering this project through in a thoughtful, environmentally friendly manner.

And a project of this scale can only bring more wear and tear to a stretch of the Blue Ridge Parkway that is already overloaded by local traffic.

This space is a beautiful part of our valley. What to do with it clearly needs to be left in the hands of the people who live here and not some out-of-stater who is only looking to make money off the project.

I am sure Mr. Vander Maten is a decent guy, but his vision of dropping such a huge construction and human footprint on the site will all but destroy the beauty which he pins his hopes for success upon.

I hope the board in charge of this site can bring a sense of -- I can't believe I am saying this -- conservatism to this plan. That is if they haven't already ceeded all rights over to the developer.

JJ -- chill out, dude. There are those among us who regard the land around here as "ours" and want to make sure we don't end up with another wonderful development like Slate Hill. How's that little piece of the free market working out for us? Let folks have their say, please, without jumpng down their throats as if your life depends on this.

 Really, JJ ? You think that the people here are jealous of this? I think we all work pretty darn hard. I know I do and I have plenty of money to spend on "nicer things". But, it's my opinion that what Mr.Vander Maten wants to do with Explore Park isn't a "nicer thing". It's Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge and Dollywood...oh, and lets thrown in Branson for good measure and maybe a little Disney World. There is nothing "conscientious" about Mr.Vander Matens plan. It's a mish-mash of ideas with no foundation in sound fiscal or environmental responsibility. I have no objection to a private company developing Explore Park. They can turn it into a posh spot like the Greenbrier or some such thing....just NOT Mr.Vander Maten. His ideas are not what most of us want for our beautiful Valley. Not all progress is appropriate....in ANY world, large or small.

Just a few comments from the presentation at the Board of Supervisors meeting.  My comments usually have something to do with environmental concerns, of which there are many on this proposal.  But I'm looking at it from a business perspective.

First, you MUST see the video if you haven't already.  I promise you will either love it or hate it depending on your vision for the former Explore Park site.  The link is on the Roanoke Times web site, and it's only 15 minutes, so if you're interested enough in this issue to be reading this, you should watch the video.  Be sure to notice when the narrator describes Roanoke as a "city of 350,000".

Board Chairman Mike Altizer (Vinton) asked Mr. Vander Maten about the availability of the property to local citizens.  In his reply Mr. Vander Maten made an analogy to Disney World, an attraction that is in his home town of Orlando.  Many people there don't go to Disney World at all (he said he hadn't been in the last ten years or so).  Others buy a season pass and go several times a year.  Still others might go once in a while and just buy a single day pass.  HIs answer suggests that Virginia Living History's vision does not include local free access to hike/bike trails or the Roanoke River.  He mentioned that local people might want to come out and eat in the restaurants, but it wasn't clear whether there would be an admission charge to get on the property for that purpose.

Mr. Vander Maten stated on at least two occasions that the cost of this development would be "well in excess of $200 million" (not "about $200 million as reported in the Roanoke Times).  He further stated that no lender has been willing to offer to finance this venture in the current economic climate.  It should be noted that he began seeking funding for this project some time ago, before there was a recession going on.  The reality of an investment such as this (from a lender's perspective) is based on what happens if the borrower is unable to repay the loan - how does the lender get the money back?  In nearly all cases, they will want collateral that is worth as much as the amount of the loan.  Should the project be built and be successful from a revenue standpoint, it would be worth quite a lot.  Should the project be started but not completed, it wouldn't be worth much at all.  If it were completed but not making enough money to survive . . . well, you get the point.  Hard to borrow money on something like this.  Surely Virginia wouldn't offer the actual land as part of the collateral(?).

How much money would it need to make to survive?  Just grabbing numbers out of the air, let's say we're happy with a 10% return on investment, and the real cost is $300 million (thats "well in excess of $200"), so the profit would need to be $30 million.  Let's guess the operating expenses are $10 million per year.  Debt service on the $300 million loan would be $18 million per year (at 6% interest).  So the gross revenue would need to be $58 million annually.

Vander Maten says that most of the revenue will be coming from overnight visitors (let's guess 75%, the other 25% from day visitors and restaurants).  The place accommodates 700 people and will be open 9 months of the year (270 days), so to get $43.5 million (75% of $58 million), assuming full occupancy, each of those 700 people would have to spend about $230 every day (or $460 for a couple).  Meanwhile, the day visitors (let's just say for simplicity's sake there are 1000 of them every day for nine months) would have to spend about $53 each.  Of course there are ways you could push things to generate more revenue.  Some activities could go on in the winter, but it would be very limited.  These numbers are based on FULL occupancy, each and every one of those 270 days.

Real businessmen and businesswomen who are in the money lending business will be doing math like this.  I know, I used to be one myself.

Local leaders seem to be inclined to let Vander Maten continue to pursue his goal of making this project a reality.  There is probably little harm in this.  The land isn't going away, though there are some concerns about maintenance and deterioration of the historic structures.

Mark,

You want a 10% return on investment (your numbers...not mine) equal to $30 million ($300million x 10%). You ALSO want to service the a debt of $300 million  (assume borrowed funds) at 6%, or $18 million. WRONG.  A return on investment IS the interest of $18 million. Woops. You're off by $30 million in your analysis. Low and behold....the numbers actually work when you do the analysis correctly. And the EBITDA is hefty at $20-30%! Before you critisize in the future, take a moment to check your math.

 I really love the plan to build this "Blue Ridge America".  Can you imagine the money it would bring into the Roanoke Area, plus the new jobs there would be in both building this development and then running it!  But Roanoke would rather tax their property owners than take advantage of this wonderful idea.  Look what it did to the Horse Center.  I think, to help get the money to build this, shares should be sold.  Maybe if the people around here could put money into it, the gate of "Welcome" would be open for a change.