I know Roe vs Wade is a difficult pill to swallow, but it does not mandate that women have abortions. They can choose not to. It seems all RVW does is allow choice. I'm not convinced we can forbid anyone the right to make a choice.

Again, Walker, I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make.  I'm drawing a distinction between immoral acts of people and the religion they profess.  The distinction is the same if it is a single person or many thousands of people.  If a Catholic priest molests a boy, that is not a Christian act just because it was committed by a priest.  If a sociopath kills and chops up a person's body in the name of Christ, because he believes he is a Christian doing God's work, that does not make it a Christian act.  If a desperately poor and frustrated, angry person blows up a crowded nightclub with a suicide bomb because he believes that is what Allah wants him to do, that is not a Muslim act.  Multiply it by whatever number, however many people, and the principle is still the same.

You believe you know what I think about 9/11?  I doubt it.  In my spare time I am a cadaver dog handler (search and rescue/recovery) and I went to NYC (also New Orleans after Katrina).  That was seven years ago, and my K-9 partner has since died, but I still see and smell Ground Zero in my head.  It was a horrible act of senseless violence that killed thousands of innocent people of all nationalities and religions.  It was committed by al-Qaeda terrorists who claimed to be devote Muslims.  I think al-Qaeda is an insult to Islam.  Many Muslim leaders condemned 9/11.

Just as the Bible is opem to broad interpretation and misrepresenation by people, so is the Qur'an.  Some Christians believe women should not cut their hair or wear slacks.  Fundamentalist Protestant preachers claim the Bible demands that women should cover their heads and wear floor-length skirts.  Some Muslims believe women should be covered from head to toe in public.  That comes from the shari'a (Muslim holy law), which is an interpretation of Islam applied to social behavior, an interpretation that many Muslims think is wrong.  You seem to be convinced that people who pervert Islam into a hateful, destructive and inhumane force are the only true Muslims.  I think you are wrong.

Again, this has nothing to do with a City Councilman opening a meeting with a prayer to Jesus.  Neither does abortion.  This is not the forum for a debate on abortion or whatever else happens to be on your mind.

 First, let me say Thanks to you for your service to us all.  I cannot imagine what you witnessed.  I'm not sure I could handle it.  And believe me, i completely understand what you are saying about Islam.  Good things CAN and ARE perverted to cause much of what is wrong with our world.   Look at the United Nations, for example.  I am in NO way saying that Christians, because they claim to be Christians, are inherently better than others. 

My opinions come directly from what I have seen/read AND what has happened historically.  You say Islam is an equally fine and peaceful religion.  I have trouble seeing that due to the fact that through-out history and up until this VERY day, Islam has been causing trouble.  Their prophet was a murderer, to say the least.  (On a side note, I'm guessing you haven't watched "FITNA" yet either)

As far as this NOT being a forum of which to discuss these things...well, your right, this thread isn't for these topics.  But, I appreciate your opinion and perspective enough to engage you about it here, as there is nowhere else to do so.

We can stop all of it if you like, that is fine by me.  However, I do have one question for you and then I will move on.  You've given me the impression that you are a Christian (if I am wrong, then this is moot).  Muslims do not accept Jesus as their Savior, Im not asking you to judge them, but what do you believe will happen to them when they die?

Muslims regard both Jesus and Muhammad as a divinely inspired prophets but not as deities.  Muhammad said that Jesus spoke the word of God, but that he did not have the whole story; the rest of the story was revealed to him by the angel Gabriel and was later put into writing (the Qur'an, or Koran) by disciples of Muhammed (just as the teaching of Jesus were later put into writing by his disciples (the Bible).  Muslims accept most of the Bible (especially the Hebrew Old Testament) and many elements of Judaism and Christianity; but like Jews, they do not believe in Christ the Holy Ghost (the son of God, crucified and resurrected, etc.).  In answer to your question, sir, what happens to Muslims, Jews, and other non-Christians after death does not concern me as much as how they behave in their life on Earth.  I believe all people have a responsibility to take care of the herein and that God will take care of the hereafter. 

P.S.  My understanding of this topic comes from many years of studing history, not from watching anti-Muslim propaganda videos.

Harsh. I was asking in a genuine manner. It wasn't meant to be snarky.  By the way, I understand the origins as well.  I was just curious if you were a Christian or not, you didn't answer that part.  As a Christian though (you didn't answer that part), you really SHOULD care what happens after these people die.  Isn't it our responsibility to lead as many others to Christ as we can?  Not necessarily by message boards such as these, but, I think you get my point.  

I'll state my opinion openly.  I believe Islam to be a false religion, that currently is advocating (either openly or by not condeming) the murder of anyone who doesn't bow to it.  If these "other peaceful muslims" are so outraged by the actions of others they should make themselves known in every way possible.  I don't see/hear them.  Maybe my opinion would change a bit if I did.

I'd be out raising cane if idiots were doing the same in the name of Jesus. 

I did not mean to be harsh and apologize for coming across that way.  I make it a practice to keep my faith to myself.  I don't think it is anyone else's business.  But since you asked, I was raised as Methodist, then became a Lutheran, and finally a Quaker once I married one.  I try to take the best of all denominations and conduct myself accordingly, behaving in an honorable manner, and treating my fellow man with respect and kindness, leaving the judgment of who's right or wrong to a higher authority.  Accordingly, I am not what you might call an Evangelical Christian; i.e, I do not accept the notion that I ought to tell other people what their religious beliefs should be.  Your concept of what it means to be a true Christian is your right, as is mine, and neither is the only one.  I trust you agree with that.  I feel the same way about non-Christians (Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc.).  Throughout history, wars have been fought between Catholics and Protestants, Christians and Muslims, Sunni and Shiite Muslims, for centuries.  Puritans hanged Quakers.  On and on....  I'm not into that sort of religious warfare when it comes to my own faith and behavior.

 Very well said!  And we wonder why the USA is in such turmoil and in such financial trouble.

 Its ok.  I respect that, your view, that is.  I was also raised Methodist and became a Lutheran.  Funny.  I agree, that we shouldnt tell others WHAT their religious beliefs should be, but I do feel it necessary to share the gospel of Jesus, whenever I can.  Unfortunately, these forums aren't the best for that, as they are political in nature and usually end up getting rather heated.  It's something I have to work on.  I'll readily admit that.

While my opinion on the current state of Islam hasn't changed, I certainly respect yours. 

Thanks.  It is good to have friendly and respectful disagreement about such touchy topics as religion and politics.  You put me on the spot with a couple of loaded questions;  let me do likewise.  Just curious, how many Muslims do you know personally and converse with about their faith?  I am not set on changing your opinion of Islam, you can believe whatever you want.  But I think it's a fair question (albeit a loaded one).

Fair enough.  Currently, I have zero muslim aquaintances.  I used to work with one and we discussed things quite a bit.  He used to say, when pressed, that he didn't necessarily agree with what happened on 9-11.  But, at the same time he became very animated when it came to defense of Hamas/Hezbollah, etc.  Decent guy to me in person, but his actions/emotions often betrayed his words.  Ive worked with others in the past who were very polite and kind, decent people...and they would NOT discuss their faith or share their opinions on current events. 

My problem with the argument about Islam as a religion of peace is that there is hardly any evidence of it.  Where are they when disasters happen?  Where are they denouncing acts of terror?  We don't see it.  Surely, the media would report it if it were there.  Actions speak louder than words.

Perspective and perception, maybe?  I think people see what they want to see based on their point of view.  Call it bias if you prefer.  Conservatives decry the "liberal media."  Liberals believe the news media leans to the right.  The liberal wing of the Democratic party is already impatient with President Obama for aiming for the middle.  Conservatives rant and worry about his "dangerous" inclination toward socialism.  Is it a difference between smart people on one side and stupidly blind people on the other?  (I think I can anticipate your answer to that rhetorical question. LOL)  But could it be more a matter of perspective and perception?  I have read, heard and seen plenty of Muslim leaders in the United States and Arab countries criticizing Islamic radicals and denouncing terrorism.  The media does report it, but not often, because it is not considered newsworthy.  You have to look for it.  You have not seen it, perhaps because of your perspective.

Islam is complex and mutifaceted, and Muslims are diverse people.  We refer to the Muslim World as if that is not the case, but i would argue that it make no more sense, and perhaps even less, than referring to the Christian World as if all Christians think and act alike.  Islam means "submission" (to God).  It began in the Middle East about 1,400 years ago.  Today most Muslims are not Arabs and do not live in the Middle East.  The ones getting all the media attention are a relatively small and aberant part of the Muslim World.  Take the United States and African-American Muslims.  Many uninformed people believe today's Nation of Islam ("Black Muslim") organization, led by Louis Farrakhan, is and always has been "the" organization of African-American Muslims.  That is incorrect.  A redirection began when Malcom X made a pilgrimage to Mecca, was impressed with the millions of non-black Muslims, and renounced the racism of the Black Muslims upon his return.  He was shot dead a short time later by assassins sent by Elijah Muhammad.  About forty years ago, when Elijah Muhammad died and his moderate son Wallace Dean Muhammed took over, the organization dropped its hardline racism and became much softer and more inclusive.  A few years later, Farrakhan led a faction of hardliners who broke off and claimed to be the true Nation of Islam.  Farrakhan gets all the media attention because of his extremist views and controversial remarks, but his is group is the minority, dissident faction.  W. Dean Muhanned died last year and there has been some effort toward reunification, but with a softening of the Farrakhan wing.

The Qur'an condemns both suicide and the killing of innocent people.  Today there are an estimated 1.2 billion Muslims in the World.  What percentage of Muslims are terrorists engaged in jihad?  Going by television reports, you might think the vast majority.  Think about this.  How many ordinary American Christians protest the funerals of slain U.S. soldiers?  One minister and his tiny congregation who do that have gotten plenty of attention in the news.  How many foreign students from China attending American universities are inclined to behead people in a fit of rage?  It that crazy person representative of the Chinese?  No, but we know how the news works.  Peaceful, sensible Muslims going about their daily business are not newsworthy.

I gotcha and understand your point.  As Ive said, Ive met and worked with "peaceful" muslims myself.  They weren't newsworthy, youre right.  I guess from now on I should focus on Islamofascism, be more specific. 

As an example, I might say "Gee, it's shocking that Islamofascists are responsible for the vast majority of terror attacks around the world, given they claim to be followers of such peaceful and tolerant religion."

or

"How can peaceful and moderate muslims tolerate honor killings and female circumcisions, it's almost as if they are Islamofascists."

;)

Does prayer have a place in governmental meetings?

This topic has resurfaced because of the prayers that recently opened the Roanoke City Council meetings. Though this issue passionately upsets many citizens, I see it not as an issue of religion but rather as one of government and the rule of law.

Our beliefs are a personal choice. It is not a concern for the public or the government. We do not diminish nor are we in any way unfaithful to our beliefs if we accept the fact that our government is based on the U.S. Constitution, the supreme law of the land.

Our currency says “In God We Trust” and “one nation under God” is a part of the Pledge of Allegiance (though not the original version). Understandably, it is a common thought by many that the Constitution establishes our country as a Christian nation. While our Founding Fathers supported Judeo-Christian beliefs, they did not want a country with a public religion or an established church. It is important to note that they wanted a separation of church and state--to protect each from the other.

Would our Founding Fathers have wanted this to be divisive to the nation? What steps can we take to ensure that our religious beliefs are respected? Would we be concerned if our government (federal, state or local) became too involved in religion—whether inclusively or exclusively? I think our Founding Fathers were onto something when they added the First Amendment to the Constitution.

 Sherman understands the law, he also understands what he has faith in. We need men like him to stand for their convictions. Keep praying and don't worry about the critics.No one should be offended by the name of Jesus, I politley listen when outher faiths pray. I still beleive what I do and we have the freedom to worship as we want thanks to men of faith and convictions. In the name of Jesus Amen

Interesting to note that the FBI just halted any contact with CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations). CAIR is purported to be a "moderate" Islamic organization.  The FBI has decided NOT to have any ties with them because CAIR has been named (a LONG time ago) as an un-indicted co-conspirator to many terrorist organizations, including HAMAS. 

Where can we find a respected, moderate, PEACEful Muslim group who DOESN'T give money to people trying to kill us?  As I said before, ACTIONS speak louder than words. 

You keep on telling me you are peaceful and that we have nothing to fear.  Okay, fine, stop sending money to Hezbollah and Hamas.  Stop sending your children to the middle east for Jihad.  Stop killing your daughters because they want freedom. 

When protesting your new country's loyalty to Israel, don't shout "You need to go back to the OVENS," or whatever disgusting anti-semitic thing you said. (How can you, at once, DENY the holocaust, yet use it to berate the fictional victims? Odd logic.)

SPEAK out when these horrid Islamo-Fascist groups claim to kill for Allah.  We can't hear you.

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I always find it humorous when I see that bumper sticker that says, COEXIST, with all of the religious symbols on it.  Which religion is the one that seems most intent on destroying the others?  Which of them actually MURDERS homosexuals with ZERO consequence?

I know, Hanson, these views of mine only come from MY own limited view of the world and its history.  I certainly haven't read EVERYTHING on the subject, nor have I lived it.  But, I trust my eyes and ears. I know silence when I see it.

Truly peaceful and moderate Muslims need to stand up and make themselves heard!